Re: Apt 5J: What 'Q' says about the GNR Search and Rescue Dogs

by jd 01.12.11 11:26

What is also interesting is that apartment 5J is not on the list of apartments to clean anyway. So this apartment must be privately owned and a no go area

if Maddie (or lookalike) did die on May 1st then whoever owned it would have known someone from the Tapas 9 or connected to them, to allow them to store a body of a child!! Nobody would do this if they didn't know the people involved

by Ollie 01.12.11 11:41

jd wrote:What is also interesting is that apartment 5J is not on the list of apartments to clean anyway. So this apartment must be privately owned and a no go area

if Maddie (or lookalike) did die on May 1st then whoever owned it would have known someone from the Tapas 9 or connected to them, to allow them to store a body of a child!! Nobody would do this if they didn't know the people involved

I agree it would have been someone they knew, the same if Madeleines body had been kept in a freezer, someone they knew.

BTW I won't be insulted if you say I post like an 18 year old!

by Guest 01.12.11 11:46

Or if as Stella has said the apartment had been unoccupied for some time, it was used because there was little risk of the owners appearing. But that of course depends on whether keys were in the keeping of the Ocean Club.

by Guest 01.12.11 12:27

From the dog search statements, I think Administration had the keys to 5J:

"On 10th May at about 20h10, upon the request of the PJ, searches were carried out in all of the apartments belonging to blocks 4 and 5 of the OC, two tracker dogs and two search and rescue dogs being used for this operation, adopting the same methods as those used on 7th May, just that this time the apartments were all open and searched one by one, being accompanied by a representative from the resort, who had the keys to all the apartments (apart from those not under her administration) and also with the objective of helping with the searches. The collaboration of all the guests occupying the apartments at that time was requested for this purpose and those apartments that were found to be empty were opened by the administrator".

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html

It would seem to me that 5J was ony entered on the 7th, or more likely the 10th May, for the first time. If so, why did it take that long to gain entry? Possible delay tactics could have been, the owner could not be contacted, or the owner refused to give permission maybe?

Would Administration even know if the owner, or someone they knew, used that apartment for a few days? As I cannot imagine the owner having to report to them as and when they want to use their own apartment.

As far as I can tell, the apartment directly above 5J is 5N. The one directly below it is 5F, both of those apartments are not cleaned or presumably rented out, which probably means they are owner occupied, or sitting empty just like 5J.

by Guest 01.12.11 12:53

alison wrote:Or if as Stella has said the apartment had been unoccupied for some time, it was used because there was little risk of the owners appearing. But that of course depends on whether keys were in the keeping of the Ocean Club.

I agree Alison, it could be that someone who knows someone, was able to 'borrow' the keys to 5J and return them in under 15 minutes, without anyone even knowing. Once inside, perhaps they took it in turns to stay there, to let the other person in, without needing the key again.

I don't think this was where Madeleine was stored. I'm tending to think at this stage, this could possibly be where she died on the first night.

by jd 01.12.11 12:54

[quote="Ollie"]

jd wrote:
BTW I won't be insulted if you say I post like an 18 year old!

You sound more like a 72 year old than a 72 year old lol!

(joke)

by jd 01.12.11 12:56

The meat smelling in this apartment and the hire car is very odd in the same case & connected to the same set of people

by Guest 01.12.11 13:19

That is very true jd. Apt 5J: What 'Q' says about the GNR Search and Rescue Dogs - Page 4 110921

I think we could also do with a new smilie, that we could use when we are joking. Perhaps a jester !! daft1

I know I could make use of it often. Apt 5J: What 'Q' says about the GNR Search and Rescue Dogs - Page 4 181154

by jd 01.12.11 13:23

the mccanns are a joke...perhaps one of them dressed as jesters with their faces painted like clowns!

by Invinoveritas 01.12.11 13:46

Ollie wrote:Stella, I agree with what you said that madeleines body was frozen, but I believe that Madeleine died before the 3rd May, possibly on the 1st May. I think her body was put into 5J then moved by the 3rd May somewhere else, the 'abduction' could then take place. To me it makes sense to put her there first then things could be put into place to move her somewhere safe and then to her final resting place, somewhere in Portugal.

BTW still looking for the bit where Gerry was seen in the hire car when Eddie and Keela were doing the search at the apartments. Will probably take forever as I go from recent posts to historic threads on this site and there is so much information on here. But I am persistent and will find it!

Ollie, is this what you're searching for?

quote: - On that night, before 10pm, the investigators see Gerald McCann near the apartment, driving alone in the rented Renault with the face of one "who has few friends." unquote

use this link and scroll down to the 31st of July

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html

by Ollie 01.12.11 13:48

[quote="jd"]

Ollie wrote:
jd wrote:
BTW I won't be insulted if you say I post like an 18 year old!

You sound more like a 72 year old than a 72 year old (joke)

Apt 5J: What 'Q' says about the GNR Search and Rescue Dogs - Page 4 145161

by Badboys 01.12.11 18:26

I should point out that apartment 5j is i believe rented out by byron properties as are some of the other properties.

police tried to trace the person in the apartment,but couldn't trace him because as he paid by cash,no record was kept.

by Ollie 01.12.11 18:53

Invinoveritas wrote:
Ollie wrote:Stella, I agree with what you said that madeleines body was frozen, but I believe that Madeleine died before the 3rd May, possibly on the 1st May. I think her body was put into 5J then moved by the 3rd May somewhere else, the 'abduction' could then take place. To me it makes sense to put her there first then things could be put into place to move her somewhere safe and then to her final resting place, somewhere in Portugal.

BTW still looking for the bit where Gerry was seen in the hire car when Eddie and Keela were doing the search at the apartments. Will probably take forever as I go from recent posts to historic threads on this site and there is so much information on here. But I am persistent and will find it!

Ollie, is this what you're searching for?

quote: - On that night, before 10pm, the investigators see Gerald McCann near the apartment, driving alone in the rented Renault with the face of one "who has few friends." unquote

use this link and scroll down to the 31st of July

[url=http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html[/quote[/url]]

Thank you Ivinoveritas!! You have saved me a lot of searching. Note to myself: if I see something of particular interest to me on this forum make a note of it!

by Invinoveritas 01.12.11 19:38

From Ollie: Thank you Ivinoveritas!! You have saved me a lot of searching. Note to myself: if I see something of particular interest to me on this forum make a note of it!

Glad to have been of help,

by Gillyspot 01.12.11 19:57

Badboys wrote:I should point out that apartment 5j is i believe rented out by byron properties as are some of the other properties.

police tried to trace the person in the apartment,but couldn't trace him because as he paid by cash,no record was kept.

Where have you found that its not in the PJ files (or if it is I can't find it) lol?

by Badboys 01.12.11 20:07

Gillyspot wrote:
Badboys wrote:I should point out that apartment 5j is i believe rented out by byron properties as are some of the other properties.

police tried to trace the person in the apartment,but couldn't trace him because as he paid by cash,no record was kept.

Where have you found that its not in the PJ files (or if it is I can't find it) lol?

SILVIA BAtISTA MENTIONS mr byron from jnb (villa management) as managing some of the properties.

also a person(south african name,if i remember correctly) is mentioned in pj files,although it doesn't mention byron properties,that who he works for,wasn't he at/in dolphin restaurant with a friend.

interestingly byron properties is near a witness say they saw something at a telephone or something.

by Ollie 01.12.11 20:32

So Gerry did drive near the apartment the night that Eddie and Keela were searching, with the face of one 'who has few friends'. Yes I can imagine his expression, we've seen it all to often when someone asks a wrong question or challenges what he says.

But why did he drive by at that time? He knew what the dogs would find. I wonder if the PJ are kicking themselves that they couldn't take the dogs into 5J? Could this case of turned out totally different if they had?

Just struck me, there's no mention of the media following him. They said it was impossible for them to of moved Madeleine's body in the hire car as they were constantly followed. It would seem that Gerry managed to drive by the apartment without the media following him that night, interesting.

by Gillyspot 01.12.11 21:07

Badboys wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:
Badboys wrote:I should point out that apartment 5j is i believe rented out by byron properties as are some of the other properties.

police tried to trace the person in the apartment,but couldn't trace him because as he paid by cash,no record was kept.

Where have you found that its not in the PJ files (or if it is I can't find it) lol?

SILVIA BAtISTA MENTIONS mr byron from jnb (villa management) as managing some of the properties.

also a person(south african name,if i remember correctly) is mentioned in pj files,although it doesn't mention byron properties,that who he works for,wasn't he at/in dolphin restaurant with a friend.

interestingly byron properties is near a witness say they saw something at a telephone or something.

I still can't find it in the PJ files. Can you show me a link?

by Badboys 01.12.11 21:31

gillyspot,it should be found by typing in byron silvia bapista,it on mm forum(hope its all right to mention another forum).

I am not sure if i am any good at links.

also mentions duke of holland (think it bottom of statement)

i think i will log out and hopefully be able to log back in later.

by Gillyspot 01.12.11 21:53

I'll have a look. I am also on there as well.

Thanks Badboys.

by Guest 02.12.11 8:26

Badboys wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:
Badboys wrote:I should point out that apartment 5j is i believe rented out by byron properties as are some of the other properties.

police tried to trace the person in the apartment,but couldn't trace him because as he paid by cash,no record was kept.

Where have you found that its not in the PJ files (or if it is I can't find it) lol?

SILVIA BAtISTA MENTIONS mr byron from jnb (villa management) as managing some of the properties.

I think if a different property management company has been mentioned in passing and not specifically relating to 5J and without anything in the files to back it up, we would be wise to disregard this information.

by Guest 04.02.14 23:07

Wow - just been reading this old thread. Never knew about 5J before. Very interesting stuff indeed.

Was it ever established who owned it or could have access around that time...

by Liz Eagles 05.02.14 5:52

As I understand things, the Ocean Club/Mark Warner accommodation in PDL was scattered across a pile of apartment type properties. My understanding is that Mark Warner don't actually OWN these properties. Some property owners rented out their apartments using Mark Warner as an agent. Some property owners might also have used private listings or other means to rent out their apartments. What does seem to stand out is that there are a cluster of apartments around the pool area and Tapas Bar that were/are under the banner of Mark Warner holidays but that is not to say that Mark Warner were the only agents - if you own a property you can place it with anyone for lettings - unless there is something legal to say that Mark Warner is the only company that can do that.

If the common areas such as the pools, tennis courts, tapas bar etc are in some way in an agreement (sorry, I don't have the legal term) to owners of the properties whereby they are somehow bound by a contract to use MW then that is significant I think. Otherwise anyone could rent out their property to whoever they like and employ a gardener, cleaner of their choice. Of course it might well be that the MW cleaners/gardeners/staff are easier for an expat to use regardless of any legal obligation but it would be interesting to see whether or not there was a legal requirement for residents/owners to use MW for such services - particularly in the 'brochure photo' areas surrounding the pool etc.

To my mind that would clarify that MW were the only people renting out properties on the complex.

Editing to Add: I remember something or other that Robert Murat's mum Jenny mentioned that people could have been renting out properties without permission/legally/tax declaration.

by sami 05.02.14 7:30

aquila wrote:To my mind that would clarify that MW were the only people renting out properties on the complex.

The rental sheets are in the link below. The arrival sheets down the page have a list of names with the tour operator next to the name, Warner or Thomas Cook etc. There is also a reference to ownr bkg, which might mean a direct booking with the owner or perhaps just that it is the owner arriving ?

I've also noticed for the first time, there is a request for the McCanns and Paynes to be located as close to each other as possible, yet no such reference for Oldfields and OBrien. This request was not granted, was it ? Were the Paynes not on a different floor ? Odd, particularly as we know Payne was complaining prior to arrival.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARRIVALS.htm

by MissDaisy 05.02.14 7:59

sami wrote:
aquila wrote:To my mind that would clarify that MW were the only people renting out properties on the complex.
The rental sheets are in the link below. The arrival sheets down the page have a list of names with the tour operator next to the name, Warner or Thomas Cook etc. There is also a reference to ownr bkg, which might mean a direct booking with the owner or perhaps just that it is the owner arriving ?

This is also an interesting statement from the Property Manager of 5e (privately owned).
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm
He is Dutch and was informed by another Dutch man of the disappearance between 21:30-21:40 near the Baptista.
It might be nothing to do with it but wasn't there a clip in the Crimewatch reconstruction of two German/Dutch sounding men?

Log in for more topics