Algor Mortis data

by Jezzex 27.08.23 10:37

Hello Tony.
Are you able to explain the extremely low core body temeprature of 29.3 C for Stuart Lubock when admitted to hospital ca. 6.23 am.
Even at an increased double rate of cooling of say max 2 C /hr for weather conditions (5 C outside, cold stone patio surface). How could Stuart cool from 37.4 C to 29.3 C in just 1 or 2 hours?
Surely the 29.3 must be seen as suspicious or indicative of something else than a death estimate of 5 am as suggested in various reports? Can you apply your intellect to this or perhaps you already know the answer? Thanks.

by Jezzex 27.08.23 11:52

Silverspeed wrote:An interesting read. Thanks for that Tony. I do hope Terry Lubbock lives long enough to see some sort of justice for his son.

Agreed Tony - of the 2 likely possibilities - the 2 neighbours knew much more than the 2 "girls" which makes them both more likely candidates for the bribes.
Also MB didn't know Claire Jones or Kelly Campbell at all, so wouldn't have known how to contact them.
It is reported elsewhere MB desparately tried to find/contact James Futers after the crimes, so they couldn't have been real friends, as MB tried to imply.
Even "mate" (boyfriend) Jonathan Kenney had only met MB in February it is said - it didn't last long.

The weakest links are the 4 who appear to have the least to do with the crimes committed, yet it is extremely hard to imagine that those "girls" didn't see or hear anything - almost all the rooms used back onto the pool patio area with jacuzzi. They can't NOT have looked out the windows a few times during the last hour or 2 they were at MB's house. I don't trust the witness statemenst - any of them - it's all fabricated - they should all be charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and perjury

by Jezzex 27.08.23 12:45

Silverspeed wrote:An interesting read. Thanks for that Tony. I do hope Terry Lubbock lives long enough to see some sort of justice for his son.

Thanks Tony for investing so much time and energy into resolving so much of this case.
I would like to make a point about the pool - which MB & Co claim was heated to 23.8 C that morning. Outdoor temperature would have been about 5 C, so steam escaping from the sides of the cover (if closed) or from the whole pool if the cover was rolled in.
Anyway the point is that usually pool owners close the pool down for the winter: i.e. switch off the filtration, pump etc heating included - saves the pool from going green from algae in the winter by keeping pool cold. Besides 23.8 C is not enough to swim in especially if air is cold 5 C - you would need at least 28-32 C. The supposed 23.8 C looks more like a holding temperature from which one might heat the pool up relatively fast - it still would take hours to get to 30 C.
The main point is that MB would NOT have done any maintenence or cleaning himself - he would have employed someone local to do it - an annual contract would have been signed in at least years 2000-2001. There can't be too many companies in a 30 mins radius of Roydon offering such services back then - one of them knew MB's detailed instructions for use & maintenence, e.g. for winter period 2000/1. Such evidence if still retrievable could give the coup de grace to the pool drowning hoax.

by **Tony Bennett** 27.08.23 12:53

Jezzex wrote:Hello Tony.
Are you able to explain the extremely low core body temeprature of 29.3 C for Stuart Lubock when admitted to hospital ca. 6.23 am.
Even at an increased double rate of cooling of say max 2 C /hr for weather conditions (5 C outside, cold stone patio surface). How could Stuart cool from 37.4 C to 29.3 C in just 1 or 2 hours?
Surely the 29.3 must be seen as suspicious or indicative of something else than a death estimate of 5 am as suggested in various reports? Can you apply your intellect to this or perhaps you already know the answer? Thanks.

From the ambulance records, Justin Merritt called the ambulance service at 5.46am. They arrived about 10 minutes later. When the ambulance men arrived, they saw Barrymore's drag artist lover, Jonathan Kenney, pumping Stuart's chest, part of a pretence that they had only just 'found' him and had just hauled him out of the pool.

When I examined the witness statements, the evidence was consistent up to around 4am that morning. All agreed that by this time, Stuart was in the jacuzzi with Jonathan Kenney, while Justin Merritt's sister Kylie was plying them both with drinks.

After that, the eight witness statements were very contradictory, which told me immediately that most of them were lying. I deduced from that that Stuart had been abused/raped between about 4am and 4.30am and that that was the time of death.

I then deduced that at least two men (probably more) had thrown Stuart's body into the pool then, so this timing would account for the low body temperature of 29.3C on arrival at the hospital. It is possible therefore that his body had been placed in an icy cold pool at soon after 4am which means his body could have lain in the pool for as much has 1 hour 45 minutes.

Note to Admin: My book on the case is sold out, expect for some pirated copies apparently being sold at inflated prices on the internet. I do however retain the entire original script on my computer (apart from the photos and diagram). I can put this all up on the forum here if you wish me to.

by Jezzex 27.08.23 13:39

Jezzex wrote:Hello Tony.
What you describe make more sense of the indisputable evidence of the CBT of 29.3 C at about 6.23 am.
Stuart can't have died until after Simon Shaw & James Futers arrive around 3.30 am or is that still open? (can't imagine that even MB would invite guests to a murder scene, let alone let them in through the door).
I now read that CBT can drop a degree in the early morning, so say about 36 C, still leaves 7 C in <2 hours. How did they do it? Normal algor mortis cooling rate is 0.83 C/hr to RT. If we take the air and pool water to be 5 C then, as you suggest the dumping in the water would help explain, because the rate of cooling by conduction doubles in water, and the rate of cooling is also accelerated by the larger temperature difference between corpse and environment. Even so there should have been a plateau CBT for at least 10-15 mins; that leaves 2 hours max for cooling; so rate of ca. 3.5 C/hr (still very high rate) - which rules out death at 5 am anyway. 4 am seems the most likely time for the rape & murder, for it has to have been as early on as the other evidence allows to obtain the result of 7 C lost during the available time window of about maximum 2 hours. It's sort of mathematical. They must have thrown him in the cold pool 5 C max, NOT in a pool at 23.8 C that simply wouldn't match the CBT evidence. Conclusions: 1) no-one went swimming that night 2) everyone knew/saw something during those 2 hours of clearing up & staging 3) they have all lied including MB's agent Mike Browne

by Verdi 27.08.23 13:46

Hello again Tony hello2

good to see you back online - more importantly posting!

If members are interested and it's not too much trouble to you, I see no reason why you shouldn't copy over your book but can't you get a re-print with your publisher, or create an e-book?

I only say this because I wouldn't like to see you out of pocket, I think you've had more than enough of that for one life time.

by Verdi 27.08.23 15:04

Jezzex.

My personal thanks on behalf of the forum for nudging Tony Bennett back to the fore.

bow3

by Jezzex 28.08.23 9:30

There were 4 post mortem reports - do any of them indicate an estimate for PMI (post Mortem Interval)? Do any of them use Henssge's Nonogram to estimate time of death? despite being so long ago and some of the variables needing to be guessed - it can still be used to test various theories about what they did with Stuart's body after death. For example was he ever in the pool? Was the pool water T 23.8 as measured by Mike Browne or just damned cold <5 C. Was the filtration pump on or off (water flow or still)? The rest we known 12 stone weight, 31 years, tall, slim, healthy, found almost unclothed and supine on cold patio tiles (also < 5C).

btw the water T of pool measured much later than the crime by MB assistent Mike Brown, must have been made with a pool thermometer. OMG did he use THE pool thermometer? Those pool thermometers are all the same witha rough scale of ) to 50 in 10 C intervals marked and between the 10's every 2 C has a strip mark - so 23.8 C seems way too accurate to me - looks like another lie, like the one where they kept insisting the pool was heated - so why didn't anyone use that warm inviting pool (other than Stuart)? Answer: no-one becasue it was as cold as the air - a damp <5 C early morning 31 March 2001.

The police need to get pathologists to re-estimate the time of death using the various variables, until they can get an answer using a reasoned PMI & known CBT of 29.3 C and one within the alloted time window of 3.45 and 5.00. They should disregard any bias w.r.t. drowning. I look forward to seeing those results.

by Jezzex 28.08.23 19:46

Verdi wrote:That's just what I was thinking. People die as a result of dangerous deviant sexual acts, not necessarily celebrities but I think it more likely in their strange world where the use of hard drugs and alcohol abuse are common place.All inhibitions are thrown to the winds I understand. Thankfully I can't speak from experience.

Are you not mixing up ideas about drug-induced consensual dangerous deviant sex (your words not mine) with those of non-consensual i.e. rape/assault. Some die from auto-asphyxiation without drugs or any other party involved - so what - has nothing to do with rape/assault as in this case.
I say this because I have been in situations like Stuart was, caught unawares by the interest of older men who would't accept NO for an answer - and I'm gay but it is hard to run away or fight them off - especially becasue they always "groom" you a bit before you realise what's afoot - by groom I mean manipulate without you realising your being manipulated - you think everything is okay until ... boom you get grabbed and held down.
I empathise strongly with Stuart. He deserves justice over those evil men.

by Verdi 28.08.23 20:07

No, I'm not mixing up ideas about anything.

Put in context my post followed on from a former member's comment - thus..

The Stuart Lubbock Investigation Scre4158

The Stuart Lubbock Investigation Scre4159

by Jezzex 28.08.23 20:20

Jezzex wrote:There were 4 post mortem reports - do any of them indicate an estimate for PMI (post Mortem Interval)? Do any of them use Henssge's Nonogram to estimate time of death? ...

I have tried to have a go at working out the estimate time of death using the Nonogram for several scenarios, but have trouble deciding how to present the data.
In brief the idea that Stuart was left in cold air 0-5C at the side of the pool doesn't pan out in the available time window, nor do most of the other alternative hypotheses, like inside the bungalow or in a pool of T=23.8C. The only scenario that comes close and even then not under but at about 2 hours is that he died in shock, a heart attack so somewhat undercooled with CBT=35C and was either constantly soaked with buckets of cold pool water for almost 2 hours or a slightly better match/probablility by immersion in the cold pool with the filtration on for 2 hours.
However, it must be said I am no expert, and I still can't get the cooling rate to fit the available timescale - it still more in the 2 top 2.5 hour range, rather than say 1 to 2 hour max.
Amny thoughts on what to try next?
I don't want to give up

by Jezzex 28.08.23 21:55

Hi - does any1 know how or where to find out what the air temperature was in Essex (around Roydon) on the the early nmorning of 31 March 2001 during the hours of about 3am to 5am? So historical weather data

I am estimating it about +5C, but it would be more accurate for calculating PMI to know what it really was

Thanks

by Verdi 29.08.23 1:16

Jezzex wrote:Hi - does any1 know how or where to find out what the air temperature was in Essex (around Roydon) on the the early nmorning of 31 March 2001 during the hours of about 3am to 5am? So historical weather data

I am estimating it about +5C, but it would be more accurate for calculating PMI to know what it really was

Thanks

Jezzex,

I appreciate and understand your passion but would you please confine your commentary to one thread alone, right now you post on a thread ten years old - it's not necessary without good reason.

I'm quite willing to create a new thread to resurrect old footage about the case should the need be. Meanwhile for the sake of forum continuity I ask that you cooperate with my request.

I will move this and your other posts to a single thread in due course..

Thanks.

by Jezzex 29.08.23 8:05

Sorry Verdi I am not skilled in this type of communication, new to this really, so learning as I go.
Thanks for pointing that out, as I wasn't aware how long or old the threads are.
I was concerned if I started a new thread it would get lost among all the threads that were not related to Stuart Lubbock. Please indicate any other future transgressions so that I might learn how to use the forum better.

by Jezzex 29.08.23 8:43

I had asked how/where to find out what the weather was like that fateful early morning tat Stuart Lubbock was raped and murdered at the hosue of Michael Barrymore in Roydon, Essex.
Have since found a link (which as new member I can't yet post) which indicates the historical weather at Stanstead Airport (only 12 miles form Roydon) i.e. the temperature 2m above ground, inparticular at 2 a.m. it was 43 F (6 C) and 45 F (7 C) at 4.30 a.m. A reasonable correction of -1 C for the measurements taken not being at ground level, would bring those down to about 5 C and 6C respectively.
Note: the pool water temperature would lag the air temperature considerably by at least an hour if not 2. So the pool water temperature, if unheated, would have been 5 C

This means that the legal team of Stuart and the CPS/Police have a reliable ambient air temperature to use in the PMI calculation/estimate using a Hessnge Nomogram.

How do we get the police to look at the case again in this light?

by Ladyinred 29.08.23 9:03

The case remains open with Essex Police.

You could contact them directly.

by Verdi 29.08.23 12:54

Jezzex,

I see you've taken it upon yourself to initiate yet another thread on the subject of Stuart Lubbock's case .... okay but I have changed the title. The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann is not a platform for direct accusatory judgments.

You say..

How do we get the police to look at the case again in this light?

We?

As already pointed out to you, the case is still active with Essex police, effectively it could be said you are interfering with an ongoing police investigation so if you've got something you think could assist that investigation, you should contact Essex police direct.

I wish you well.

by Verdi 29.08.23 13:21

Jezzex wrote:Sorry Verdi I am not skilled in this type of communication, new to this really, so learning as I go.
Thanks for pointing that out, as I wasn't aware how long or old the threads are.
I was concerned if I started a new thread it would get lost among all the threads that were not related to Stuart Lubbock. Please indicate any other future transgressions so that I might learn how to use the forum better.

For a new member of only two days standing you appear to be quite conversant with the mechanics thumbsup

by Jezzex 14.09.23 13:04

Verdi wrote:Hello again Tony good to see you back online - more importantly posting!

If members are interested and it's not too much trouble to you, I see no reason why you shouldn't copy over your book but can't you get a re-print with your publisher, or create an e-book?

I only say this because I wouldn't like to see you out of pocket, I think you've had more than enough of that for one life time.

I would pay for a digital copy of your book

by Verdi 14.09.23 13:22

Jezzex wrote:
Verdi wrote:Hello again Tony good to see you back online - more importantly posting!

If members are interested and it's not too much trouble to you, I see no reason why you shouldn't copy over your book but can't you get a re-print with your publisher, or create an e-book?

I only say this because I wouldn't like to see you out of pocket, I think you've had more than enough of that for one life time.

I would pay for a digital copy of your book

Sorry, you've lost me - what book? Do you mean Tony's book?