PLANNING THE ABDUCTION HOAX. Was it done over four days, or four hours?

Jill Havern wrote:

If your three year old child had just had a sudden and fatal accident could you really go for a stroll like this?

For the past 12 years I've tried to imagine my daughter and son in law doing this...and it just wouldn't happen.

It just would NOT happen.

They look relaxed and those smiles , like the smiles in the Punch and Judy photo are genuine , not forced for a camera forced smiles don't reach the eyes , these do ! 

Accident or " abduction " , ( or something else ) their attitude , don't care , got away with it , relief , brilliant actors , I cannot comprehend . 

I've only met one person who thinks they're not involved , that was on the basis of the Netflix documentary and nothing else . She shut me down when I tried  to direct her to the files etc , didn't want to know . 

 According to Kate though we are obviously NOT " inherently good people " . There's a lot of us around my dear , those  of us who cannot understand your behaviour , your actions and your lies .

Tapas 7 movements between 2110 and 2155
Remember it takes 2 minutes to get into 5A from the Tapas bar
It takes 3 minutes to get round to 5C and 5D
add a little time to actually look at the children, tuck them up, 
use the facilities - rather then the ones at the restaurant -
and ask yourself how many minutes there were 
WITHOUT a foot patrol outside 5A . . .

PeterMac wrote:Tapas 7 movements between 2110 and 2155
Remember it takes 2 minutes to get into 5A from the Tapas bar
It takes 3 minutes to get round to 5C and 5D
add a little time to actually look at the children, tuck them up, 
use the facilities - rather then the ones at the restaurant -
and ask yourself how many minutes there were 
WITHOUT a foot patrol outside 5A . . .

Hammer.

Nail.

Head.

Remind me why they wouldn't do a reconstruction?

You know... if a real genuine policeman was in charge of Operation Grange...

PeterMac wrote:Death is not an event, it is a process. It takes time

The discovery of the body down the back of the sofa on Monday morning, where it had been overnight,
and was now cold and stiff and 'leaking' bodily fluids onto the tiled floor where eventually the dogs would alert,

Depends on the circumstances.  If someone sticks a gun at your head, pulls the trigger and blows your brains out, death is an event - a certainty, not a process.

If a corpse had laid dormant in the same location for a number of hours, overnight for example, I would expect to see a more conclusive forensic report than .... 'is too complex for meaningful interpretation'., as documented by the UK's Forensic Science Service.

It is a lot to organise in a very short time.
All the official stories have to be drafted out and then rehearsed.

There is no conclusive evidence of a living Madeleine McCann after Sunday 29th April 2007.

That is the key to the mystery!

crusader wrote:The problem I have with Madeline's demise any earlier  than the 3rd May is, it relies on too many people being involved.

But it doesn't!  All that was required was a PACT between the McCanns and their group of friends and one nanny, the nanny who allegedly cared for Madeleine every day at the crèche.

The evidence of the McCanns friends complicity is contained in their respective witness statements - in particular the rogatory interviews held in April the following year. The nanny, Catriona Baker, could have been coerced or she could have been directly involved in some way. What stands out for me is her willingness to stand as a witness (a character witness it could be said) for an event that allegedly transpired at night - as far as is known, the nanny was not caring for Madeleine at that time on Thursday 3rd May 2007 so how exactly does she fit in as a witness?

She was interviewed by the PJ along with the rest of the staff, she was asked the same questions as the rest of the childcare staff (excepting the statement relating to the beach mini sailing trip) and yet, she went that extra mile in support of the McCanns. Now that I find very very odd.

Here on CMOMM, a considerable amount of study has been undertaken over the years to unravel the conflicting, I will say deceptive, witness statements.  It's all here on the forum.

It's 99.9% certain that Madeleine passed on the beginning of their
holiday otherwise there would have been dozens of photo's of her and 
the twins also the dodgy photo's that the Maccs put foward,I can't
Understand anyone thinking otherwise.

Blackpied wrote:It's 99.9% certain that Madeleine passed on the beginning of their
holiday otherwise there would have been dozens of photo's of her and 
the twins also the dodgy photo's that the Maccs put foward,I can't
Understand anyone thinking otherwise.

Exactly Blackpied - post of the day ^^^ !

But if that were so, (6.30 - 10pm) then we might expect all the Tapas and everyone else to be able to confirm M's presence at events, have vivid recollections of playing together, have photos of Sammy Snake, photos of her at all sorts of other joint events including the children.   Sailing, having High Tea, and everything else.
But they don't.

And we know that the McCanns were part of that sort of planned and informal joint family activity, since they all trooped upstairs to the Payne's apartment for Sunday lunch, clutching their plates and sandwiches - exactly as one might have expected.
But after Sunday there is nothing.

And all the Tapas 7 are very careful in their rogatories NOT to say they saw her, and to make it clear that apart from dinner they rarely did anything very much together. (By which I mean with the McCanns) .  Some of the men go sailing / windsurfing together, for example, but GM is not included in anything very much.
  
Would not 4 mothers form into a small coven and 'talk babies' ?    That is certainly my, albeit limited, observation from my experience of having run a small hotel for 17 years.   Children create a bond and mothers from different nations, not even bound by a common language, still share and compare notes and look out for each other.
This is a group who booked a holiday together,  but then apparently led separate lives, despite the bond of small children.
We know they did precisely that on 3/5/7, when they all extracted their children from the creches and dragged them down to the Paraiso on the beach for the entire afternoon.
EXCEPT THE MCCANNS
WHY ?

crusader wrote:But why, if Madeleine's demise  was Sunday night, did they wait until Thursday to act out the drama.

4 days to get their act together?

Any good performance requires preparation, a script, props and an element of rehearsal.

The time the curtain is to be raised must be set in advance.

The media must be given advance notice so that they are in a position to give the 'first night' maximum and enthusiastic publicity to get the the show well and truly on the road.

Thursday was the only possible night.

Friday night - Saturday morning, and they would all have been held in Portugal for statements to be taken.

Wednesday night - Thursday morning, and the PJ would have had 2 and a half days, which is ample time for the realisation that none of it fits together. Dr Amaral realised that by Saturday, but he had lost them forever.

Thursday is just right.   By the time it breaks we are into Friday, ( and night is good, since police strength is less than half normal day manpower) . which gives the PJ just time to take a set of scrappy statements, and to accept that they have nothing substantive enough for an early arrest .. . therefore they are all free to leave . . .

to do otherwise would have involved unravelling the entire conspiracy - if there was one - which it has taken us 12 years to work out. [Allegedly, of course !]

crusader wrote:Even one of the Tapas lot ( can't remember who just at the minute ) wouldn't sit next to Gerry as he thought he was boring.

I'm not aware of this. If you can remember and provide a link to the provenance it would be appreciated.

Jane Tanner however..

Jane Tanner's rogatory interview - April 2008

4078 “Did you forge a stronger relationship for example with Kate and Gerry (inaudible)?”

Reply “Yeah definitely, yeah I think definitely and especially with the tennis lessons with Kate as well, definitely because I think before we went you know they were the two people in the group that, for me, I knew we’d get on with Dave and Fiona, I knew we’d get on well with Matt and Rachael just because you know they’re sort of probably our best friends so to speak so, but yeah and err it was nice to be able to get to know Kate and Gerry, Kate and Gerry better?”

4078 “Okay. And what did you think of them at that stage?”

Reply “Yeah they were nice, normal people, yeah you know, sort of, that’s the thing, I mean Gerry, the sort of person Gerry is, I could never see us being best buddies because he’s very, we’re very different. I think he’s very err he’s quite forthright and so I don’t think we’d ever be best friends but there’s no problem there or anything like that you know, I feel bad saying that because it makes it sound like there is a problem but there’s not but you know it’s not, whereas Kate I was really, I was getting to know Kate quite well but yeah I think Gerry is sort of like more of a man’s man maybe.”

4078 “Yeah.”

Reply “That sounds terrible, I don’t mean that at all.”

4078 “No.”

Reply “But you know I think out of the two I was probably, I know Kate better than I know Gerry.”

4078 “Right, it was a very specific question I asked anyway, so what you’re saying is his character is the sort of character that you probably wouldn’t naturally have…”

Reply “No I think he’s, we’re probably very different, I think he’s err yeah I’m trying to put it in to words because if I say he, he doesn’t intimidate me in any shape or form but you know what I mean I think he’s probably the person out of the whole group that I would feel least comfortable with, you know, just on, just chatting because we probably haven’t got as much in common.”

4078 “Yeah, but with Kate it was…”

Reply “With Kate it was fine yeah. That sounds terrible to say and it’s not meant to sound like that at all. But it’s just…”

4078 “Well it’s just a question I asked.”

Reply “Yeah and it’s just being honest yeah. I think out of everybody in the group Gerry’s probably the one that I know the least, least well.”

4078 “And so how did you, how did you feel about Kate?”

Reply “Yeah, no, really yes I was getting to know her, I say it was nice to have the opportunity to get to know, get to know Kate and yeah she’s lovely, so yeah we sort of, I think we were you know forming more of a, more of a friendship.”

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

It's taken hours, weeks, months, years to rid CMOMM of myth repetition, unsubstantiated theorizing, propagating nonsense blah blah blah.

I really don't wish to find that time has been wasted and CMOMM is back to square one.

crusader wrote:In the scheme of things, it matters not the exact day Madeleine met her fate, everyone has their own theory, everyone is working to get to the truth in their own way.

It matters a great deal - it is the key that unlocks the Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann. It exposes the depth of deception created by the McCanns and their group of friends, without which 'abduction' would be played out to the end.

Theory is only constructive if based on evidence and informed opinion.

crusader wrote:A group of holiday makers, a tragedy, and a story so watertight, so cleverly concocted that we are no nearer now to finding Madeleine than 4th May 2007.

I beg to differ. The proverbial 'we', in the form of CMOMM and the MMRG, have progressed dramatically over the years by diligent study, research and analysis. Finding Madeleine is not the issue, an impossible task evidenced by the McCanns confidence displayed over the past 12 years+. The proverbial 'we' strive to solve the mystery of Madeleine's disappearance. The problem is the reluctance by officialdom to do their job, to undertake a thorough legitimate investigation - if that were a reality the case would have been solved 12 years ago and Madeleine would be able to rest in peace, as she so richly deserves.

The story concocted by the McCanns and their friends is neither watertight nor clever - it is riddled with anomalies that would never stand fast in a court of law.  

It is not their cunning that stands between freedom and justice - it's establishment corruption.  The PJ were on the right track, they were getting close to the truth until the investigation was stymied by outside influence.  From that moment I don't believe there is one source of officialdom that is working for Madeleine McCann.  To quote Professor Gerald McCann .... no one is proactively searching for Madeleine, not even he, her own father!!!

Think on that if you will.

crusader wrote:The fact remains the PJ could not find anything concrete to pin on the Mccann's.

What outside influence do you mean.

The PJ were not trying to 'pin' anything on the McCanns. They were conducting a thorough routine police investigation into the disappearance of a three year old child, holidaying with her family and a group of friends.

The investigation was interrupted by the UK establishment in it's various guises within hours of the disappearance being reported to the Portuguese police.

If you're looking for direction on any one issue say the word, when I have time I will locate the forum link best suited to your questions, otherwise I haven't the patience to keep going over old ground that I consider to be already thrashed to the ninth degree.

Forgive me, scab picking is not my scene. As my old grandmother used to say .... 'it'll never get well if you pick it!'. I don't think she was talking about me nose .