Re: Online Store back open

by ultimaThule 11.01.14 17:50

Châtelaine wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:There may be 400 grand in the published kitty, tasprin, but, as time has shown, the McCanns have an ability to conceal that which they don't want revealed which leads me to suspect there's at least another million or 2 stashed away where it won't easily be found.
***
Putting the Fund's bookkeeping and that of Metodo3 next to each other, might be a beginning ....

From what can be seen of the limited company non-transparent accounts, it would appear we have only the word of the McCanns and their various investigators that the sums which have been bandied about as having been dispensed to facilitate 'the search' bear any relation to those which have been genuinely and irrecoverably expended on 'leaving no stone unturned' in locations other than 5* hotels around the globe.

I would very much like to know what, if any, mortgage remains outstanding on Rothley Towers and on properties belonging to others such as the tapas 7 and assorted members/pals of the McCann/Healy families whose lifestyles may be known to have improved since May 2007.

by jay2001 11.01.14 18:03

I feel very despondent today and wonder if there will ever be justice for Maddie. The online store back open and with 2 police forces on the case why on earth do they need donations? Sheer greed IMO. The pic of the couple at Everton showed them looking like they didn't have a care in the world, not like people scared of being hauled in by NSY. Then the prog where a Ms Leal declared them 100% innocent - made by a company with connections. Why do they have this power over people, that ensures they seem to be bullet proof.

It'll soon be 3 years since NSY took on the case and they seem to be floundering IMO. Maybe they have interviewed the Mcs and their holiday maker pals and while I understand that any case has to be watertight they seem to be taking an inordinate time. If Redwood interviewed me I'd plead guilty to signing the Magna Carta! Surely someone would crack.

Not being impatient, but this has dragged on far too long and the PJ and UK police knew virtually what happened by August 2007 and it's now 2014. I feel so sad for Dr Amaral and how his life has been ruined, while the Mcs beg for money, money, money and are treated like celebs.

by ultimaThule 11.01.14 18:08

tasprin wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:There may be 400 grand in the published kitty, tasprin, but, as time has shown, the McCanns have an ability to conceal that which they don't want revealed which leads me to suspect there's at least another million or 2 stashed away where it won't easily be found.

UltimaThule, that is what I believe too, but even if there is only £400k left, that is a small fortune to most people and as there are two police forces on the case they don't need any money at all for the so-called 'search'. Who else asks for money in case the police don't succeed? They didn't cooperate with the police investigation, they changed their statements repeatedly, they didn't return for the reconstruction, absolutely no one is allowed to ask them even the most basic questions, followers on Facebook are routinely banned for innocuous queries and lawyers are permanently on speed dial. How, after seven years of cadging, can they possibly get away with asking for more money?

eta: As an NHS consultant with a private practice, GM's salary must be in the top bracket. The only expense they have in relation to 'finding Maddie' is the website & phoneline. Why ask the public for donations when they can well afford to pay for these things themselves? And why, during the libel proceedings, have their well-heeled friends, relatives & witnesses cadged their expenses from the fund if the money is so crucial to finding her?

At a conservative estimate, losing this latest part of the court proceedings in Lisbon which has been ongoing since 2010 is likely to deplete the lifestyle fund by a further £2-300,000+, which is in addition to the sums which have already been expended on the costs of 2 unsuccessful appeals against the lifting of the ban on Dr Amaral's book, The Truth Of The Lie.

From what has been ascertained of late, it would seem the wee one's contract with a private hospital was shortlived and, since devoting himself to 'research', he does not practise as a NHS consultant although, of course, he may still be enjoying an income which is at or above this grade.

Fwiw, according to my last check of the BMC registers his spouse is not licensed to practise medicine in any capacity.

by Guest 11.01.14 18:12

ultimaThule wrote: [...]
From what can be seen of the limited company non-transparent accounts, it would appear we have only the word of the McCanns and their various investigators that the sums which have been bandied about as having been dispensed to facilitate 'the search' bear any relation to those which have been genuinely and irrecoverably expended on 'leaving no stone unturned' [...]

***
From what I remember [rather early days] the amounts for remuneration mentioned by McCs and by M3 were DISTINCTLY different ...

by mysterion 11.01.14 18:18

If the McCanns have obstructed the police with their enquiries into a very serious offence, (abduction according to the McCanns) why haven`t they been charged. Surely answering police questions is not optional just because you are a parent.
The negligence issue has been well covered.
This suggests to me that, as things stand, they are untouchable in both countries for some "higher" reason.

As far as the fund is concerned, the police could investigate it on the grounds that Madeleine may be being held captive somewhere and monies may be paid on a regular basis as ransom. But SY don`t investigate.

by ultimaThule 11.01.14 18:21

I sympathise with your feelings, jay2001.

It's hard to keep the faith when it seems that proceedings are being unnecessarily protracted but I would remind you that in a case of this complexity, in which the police investigations of 2 countries will be subject to international as well as domestic scrutiny, it is vital to dot every i and cross every t before any prosecution(s) are brought to court.

In short, it's necessary to leave no stone unturned before charging the perpetrators of particularly heinous crimes.

by ultimaThule 11.01.14 18:29

Châtelaine wrote:
ultimaThule wrote: [...]
From what can be seen of the limited company non-transparent accounts, it would appear we have only the word of the McCanns and their various investigators that the sums which have been bandied about as having been dispensed to facilitate 'the search' bear any relation to those which have been genuinely and irrecoverably expended on 'leaving no stone unturned' [...]
***
From what I remember [rather early days] the amounts for remuneration mentioned by McCs and by M3 were DISTINCTLY different ...

Was it the wee one who once commented that 'confusion is good', Chatelaine?

If so, it would seem he merely adapted Gordon Gekko's well-known mantra, which it would appear he ardently adheres to, in order to reflect another of his distinctly non-original beliefs.

by tasprin 11.01.14 18:37

ultimaThule wrote:
At a conservative estimate, losing this latest part of the court proceedings in Lisbon which has been ongoing since 2010 is likely to deplete the lifestyle fund by a further £2-300,000+, which is in addition to the sums which have already been expended on the costs of 2 unsuccessful appeals against the lifting of the ban on Dr Amaral's book, The Truth Of The Lie.

From what has been ascertained of late, it would seem the wee one's contract with a private hospital was shortlived and, since devoting himself to 'research', he does not practise as a NHS consultant although, of course, he may still be enjoying an income which is at or above this grade.

Fwiw, according to my last check of the BMC registers his spouse is not licensed to practise medicine in any capacity.

Yes, imo the 'fighting fund' was originally set up for their benefit and with the express purpose of covering legal fees etc and that is where the money has gone, with a fair bit stashed away for a rainy day - in other words the public have paid for their defence and their libel action, not the search. To avoid criticism and possible objections they had to fiddle around with the terms of the fund to make it acceptable to the public and give it the appearance of a 'search fund for Maddie.' They made a mistake when they used the fund to make two mortgage payments in 2007 and I've often wondered how the press found out.

eta: I was aware his wife was no longer licensed to practise but not that GM was devoted to research now.

by ultimaThule 11.01.14 18:47

Enid O'Dowd's comprehensive investigation and illuminating review of the 'fund' and its accounts can be read here: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id405.html

by Cristobell 11.01.14 19:22

ultimaThule wrote:I sympathise with your feelings, jay2001.

It's hard to keep the faith when it seems that proceedings are being unnecessarily protracted but I would remind you that in a case of this complexity, in which the police investigations of 2 countries will be subject to international as well as domestic scrutiny, it is vital to dot every i and cross every t before any prosecution(s) are brought to court.

In short, it's necessary to leave no stone unturned before charging the perpetrators of particularly heinous crimes.

You are right of course Ultima Thule, it is a complex case, and we don't as yet know how far the web spreads out. The original lie has led to thousands of others and I suppose each has to be untangled and proved. I've read of many cases where perpetrators of horrendous crimes have been able to evade arrest for years, even though it is blatantly clear to the police and the public that they are guilty. The case of Stephen Lawrence is only one example.

The crime programs we watch on television are conveniently wound up within an hour with a satisfying ending. I doubt that happens very often in real life.

With regard to the online shop, I still believe that it was the subject of legal action. It remained closed over the Christmas period, a time when the McCanns traditionally remind us that Madeleine is still missing and they still need money. The best time of year for those giftbox paypal buttons. I think they have won a small victory here, probably based on the fact that they are ordinary citizens and the parents of a missing child, with nothing really to stop them asking for money.

The frustrating part is, I think that we are all shouting out 'Behind You' to DCI Redwood and he doesn't appear to be listening.

by ProfessorPPlum 11.01.14 19:46

Going back to basics....

The assumption that the shop hiccup was the result of police investigation was hasty and wishful. It happened at the point that Google Checkout (and therefore the useful 'Google Donate' button that came with it) was being retired, forcing them to find an alternative. They could have just used a 'PayPal' donate button (requiring only a PayPal account) but that wouldn't have let them sell any other products. It looks to me like they're using something like Actinic for their shop with PayPal as the payment gateway. That switch alone could have taken the 'bedroom webmaster' quite some time to figure out - it's not as easy as it looks.

Until they are shown to be breaking the law in their operation of this fund (or they are arrested on charges relating to MM's disappearance) then expect this fund-raising to go on unmolested and that any interruptions will be down to the infuriating technologies involved in running e-commerce sites, even the simple ones.

by jay2001 11.01.14 19:52

Thanks Ultima and Cristobell - I know it's an extremely complex issue and a watertight case must be built. I'm just so sorry for Dr Amaral to be suffering for all this time. And I'm getting on a bit now!

by Guest 11.01.14 19:55

ProfessorPPlum wrote:Going back to basics....

The assumption that the shop hiccup was the result of police investigation was hasty and wishful. It happened at the point that Google Checkout (and therefore the useful 'Google Donate' button that came with it) was being retired, forcing them to find an alternative. They could have just used a 'PayPal' donate button (requiring only a PayPal account) but that wouldn't have let them sell any other products. It looks to me like they're using something like Actinic for their shop with PayPal as the payment gateway. That switch alone could have taken the 'bedroom webmaster' quite some time to figure out - it's not as easy as it looks.

Until they are shown to be breaking the law in their operation of this fund (or they are arrested on charges relating to MM's disappearance) then expect this fund-raising to go on unmolested and that any interruptions will be down to the infuriating technologies involved in running e-commerce sites, even the simple ones.

The best/only way to get your own back is by not donating or purchasing anything.

by TellTheTruth 11.01.14 21:02

Clay, I understand what you are saying but people have been and still are buying this tat and adding to the MCs piggy bank.

The other day as I was driving home a car passed me with one of their Madeleine car stickers in the window!

I'm sick of this now, absolutely sick and tired of waiting for the people who made Madeleine "disappear" not being caught and thrown behind bars for the rest of their horrible lives.

I've reached my best before date and I don' t think I will ever see this case wound up with the proper outcome.

As the poor old MCs seem to think car stickers are such a good way of spreading the word I think I'll put one in MY car.

It'll be a sticker advertising Goncalo Amaral's book.

Let's see how they like that!

I'll probably get arrested . sad

by Guest 11.01.14 21:06

TellTheTruth wrote:It'll be a sticker advertising Goncalo Amaral's book.

Let's see how they like that!

I'll probably get arrested .

I'd actually be quite good experimental material here. I've got zero net worth so suing me would be a total waste of time. Somebody suggested the other day just leaving printouts of the book lying around. Personally I think a lecture tour would be quite productive.

by TellTheTruth 11.01.14 21:16

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
TellTheTruth wrote:It'll be a sticker advertising Goncalo Amaral's book.

Let's see how they like that!

I'll probably get arrested .

I'd actually be quite good experimental material here. I've got zero net worth so suing me would be a total waste of time. Somebody suggested the other day just leaving printouts of the book lying around. Personally I think a lecture tour would be quite productive.

Something needs to be done, they can't keep on having it all their own way.

I can tell you a very strange thing. The MCs actually came to my home town to give a talk( don' t know what they had to say as I only found out that they were here the day after). There was not a single report of it in the Nationtional or local press.

If ONLY I had known the day before I would have been there in the foyer to greet them...clutching a little booklet written by one of their very favourite people thumbsup

by Guest 11.01.14 22:20

obviously the posters on this topic have not had a Ltd company before. Lots of ways and means to 'slightly'falsify figures...

Which the Mccanns and paid accountants will be doing. Can assure you of that.

by canada12 11.01.14 23:12

Which is why Forensic Accounting firms exist - to uncover the creative accounting practices of companies and countries that come under scrutiny for fraud. I do hope the Find Madeleine Fund one day soon falls under this sort of investigation.

If I were an investigator working for a forensic accounting firm, I'd be particularly interested in the hiring of a series of useless detective firms and other "investigators" whose conclusions usually turned out to be less than helpful or even ridiculous. Especially when there are so many legitimate detective firms and investigators out there with pristeen reputations and a record of results. One has to wonder why the McCanns consistently turned to questionable investigators. There's only so far you can drag out the argument, "Oh, silly us, we hired the wrong people for the job."

by nglfi 13.01.14 8:09

I haven't been to the McC website and have no plans to, but is there seriously a facility to buy holidays there??? That's just sick. It makes a mockery of what happened and it makes a mockery of Madeleine. How they can think anyone would take their recommendations on how to holiday is beyond me, and shows how unconcerned they are by what happened. It also seems to be a deliberate two fingers up to the police and justice generally. Sometimes I think to myself there is a margin of doubt in every case and perhaps, just perhaps they could be innocent, and then they do things like this, I'm reminded of 'the wider agenda', and I'm back to firmly believing they're guilty as sin!

by **tigger** 13.01.14 8:34

Châtelaine wrote:
ultimaThule wrote: [...]
From what can be seen of the limited company non-transparent accounts, it would appear we have only the word of the McCanns and their various investigators that the sums which have been bandied about as having been dispensed to facilitate 'the search' bear any relation to those which have been genuinely and irrecoverably expended on 'leaving no stone unturned' [...]
***
From what I remember [rather early days] the amounts for remuneration mentioned by McCs and by M3 were DISTINCTLY different ...

Metodo3 iirc denied being paid £ 500.000,-- . Same initial number but one or two noughts missing they said. Fair enough, what's a zero amongst friends?
Metodo3 looked where they were asked to look by their employers but unfortunately all the places where they were told to look turned out to be wrong. Bad luck ehh? Not even half a million to show for all their efforts.

by nglfi 13.01.14 9:26

Could it be that they need to keep selling tat to strengthen the libel case against Amaral? They need to show they are actively looking for her. If not, and the fund raiser is over, there should be no reason why the books shouldn't be able to go back on the shelves. Wven if it's decided his book did damage the search for Maddie, does this mean an automatic ban on the book in perpetuity, or just that they get awarded damages?

by Pershing36 13.01.14 9:53

tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
ultimaThule wrote: [...]
From what can be seen of the limited company non-transparent accounts, it would appear we have only the word of the McCanns and their various investigators that the sums which have been bandied about as having been dispensed to facilitate 'the search' bear any relation to those which have been genuinely and irrecoverably expended on 'leaving no stone unturned' [...]
***
From what I remember [rather early days] the amounts for remuneration mentioned by McCs and by M3 were DISTINCTLY different ...

Metodo3 iirc denied being paid £ 500.000,-- . Same initial number but one or two noughts missing they said. Fair enough, what's a zero amongst friends?
Metodo3 looked where they were asked to look by their employers but unfortunately all the places where they were told to look turned out to be wrong. Bad luck ehh? Not even half a million to show for all their efforts.

It appears SY are in the same boat as Metodo3.

It is like being told to find a new pair of shoes but not being allowed to look in the shiny new shoe box in front of your face.

by Guest 13.01.14 9:58

nglfi wrote:I haven't been to the McC website and have no plans to, but is there seriously a facility to buy holidays there??? That's just sick. It makes a mockery of what happened and it makes a mockery of Madeleine. How they can think anyone would take their recommendations on how to holiday is beyond me, and shows how unconcerned they are by what happened. It also seems to be a deliberate two fingers up to the police and justice generally. Sometimes I think to myself there is a margin of doubt in every case and perhaps, just perhaps they could be innocent, and then they do things like this, I'm reminded of 'the wider agenda', and I'm back to firmly believing they're guilty as sin!

In the interests of research, I have checked out the site and I'm glad to report that there is no mention of holidays. I'm sure someone witty like PeterMac will be able to come up with some suggestions of what a McCann Tour Group holiday would entail! Definitely adults only entertainment.

http://www.findmadeleine.com/online_store/index.html

by Liz Eagles 16.01.14 0:27

The online store is back up and running.

For anyone thinking that the online store was offline due to a possible problem with Google Checkout etc, I'd like to give my thoughts on things.

Being paid isn't difficult. If your company's internet means of payment goes down over a few days there are many companies that will be only too glad to help. The Fund maintained PayPal (it was the only means available to Germany on the website despite moving to Google Checkout for everyone else). When the Fund moved to Google Checkout from PayPal there was no disruption to the 'service'.

There is another company that would probably have helped out - the Virgin company that costs less than google checkout (if I can remember my research correctly) and hosted the Virgin London Triathlon - the one where Gerry was a hero. Richard Branson helped the McCanns - why would it have taken anything longer than a phone call/email to any of the businesses/charities/professionals the McCanns associate themselves with to just switch providers?

So for me there is no excuse re payment receipt arrangements for an interruption in trading, especially as the Fund has resorted back to PayPal.

So I'm back to 'why the disruption to the business?'

Just my opinion.

by canada12 16.01.14 2:56

aquila wrote:The online store is back up and running.

For anyone thinking that the online store was offline due to a possible problem with Google Checkout etc, I'd like to give my thoughts on things.

Being paid isn't difficult. If your company's internet means of payment goes down over a few days there are many companies that will be only too glad to help. The Fund maintained PayPal (it was the only means available to Germany on the website despite moving to Google Checkout for everyone else). When the Fund moved to Google Checkout from PayPal there was no disruption to the 'service'.

There is another company that would probably have helped out - the Virgin company that costs less than google checkout (if I can remember my research correctly) and hosted the Virgin London Triathlon - the one where Gerry was a hero. Richard Branson helped the McCanns - why would it have taken anything longer than a phone call/email to any of the businesses/charities/professionals the McCanns associate themselves with to just switch providers?

So for me there is no excuse re payment receipt arrangements for an interruption in trading, especially as the Fund has resorted back to PayPal.

So I'm back to 'why the disruption to the business?'

Just my opinion.

Perhaps something to do with where the shop was "housed"? It's back in business, but not on the main website. It has its own "shop" website, reached via links. Might there have been some sort of injunction in place, or something preventing the shop from operating on the main site. But a loophole has been found to operate it on a separate website?
Just my opinion too.

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