Re: Where was Gerry 9,30 - 10.00pm?

by Guest 16.10.13 19:05

Lance De Boils wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:Admin: would it be possible to merge the posts from that thread in the discussion forum with this thread as I think it's now very pertinent to latest news?
Do you mean this one Lance?

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3677-jane-tanner-and-the-football-comment
Yep.

Ok have done that, the thread will be a bit muddled time wise/post wise as posts go in date and time order when merged.

by Nereid 16.10.13 19:08

Lance De Boils wrote:
dragonfly wrote:After 20.30, the witness and his wife, after looking at the children, went to the Tapas Bar, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner. As usual, every half hour and as the restaurant was near, the witness or his wife, would check whether the children were all right. In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine. "He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant."

How on earth has Gerry Managed to go to tapas bar leave Kate and be gone a long time watching football which caused Kate to Moan 'Words from Jane Tanners mouth' during this small time frame? If Gerry was watching football else where ? Who was he watching football with? Why he leave the group ?
Neil Berry, in his rog interview, mentions that he and Raj Balu watched football in a local bar on two different nights that week.

I wonder where, and what days...?

1 May 2007

1 May 2007 - Semi-finals Full time »
Liverpool	1-0	Chelsea
Aggregate: 1-1 Liverpool 4-1 win on penalties
Referee: Manuel Mejuto González (ESP) – Stadium: Anfield, Liverpool (ENG)

2 May 2007

2 May 2007 - Semi-finals Full time »
Milan	3-0	Man. United
Aggregate: 5-3
Referee: Frank De Bleeckere (BEL) – Stadium: Stadio Giuseppe Meazza, Milan (ITA)

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2006/matches/round=2360/index.html

Pubs, Bars & Clubs

There is a nice selection of pubs and bars around Luz most of which are situated close to the main square. However, there are others so do not limit your choice to this area only.
A couple of the pubs also offer excellent food, but you may need to book in advance due to their popularity.
Quizzes are very popular during the busier seasons, with both Kelly's and the restaurant Chaplins hold regular quizzes, which are always great entertainment, and above all else, good fun. Live sport is also shown in Kelly's, The Bull and The Duke.

http://www.casajags.co.uk/html/the_resort.html

by sweetex 16.10.13 19:22

Worth it to read the timelines here. Consolidation of statements.

Note this one :

Maria da Silva declares that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58—she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;
. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend’s apartment was located;
. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;
. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn’t yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;
. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;

And this one:

Property manager Barend Weijdom heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 – 21.40 from P.B., a Dutchman and owner of the Atlántico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine. He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 – 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present. When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic111.html

by JackieL 16.10.13 20:54

Just an aside to all this, but something which was commented on at the time and has always seemed very odd were the timings chosen during the first anniversary events:(REFERENCES THANKS TO THE MCCANNFILES):

Mirror 2008 wrote:
One year on: Light a candle for missing Madeleine McCann [color:4070=000000]Daily Mirror

Exclusive by Martin Fricker
03/05/2008

It is exactly one year from that terrible moment when Kate McCann discovered her daughter Madeleine missing from bed.

The anguished mum and husband Gerry are asking everyone to mark the anniversary at 9.15pm by lighting a candle and praying for their four-year-old's safe return.

Tonight Everton, Madeleine's favourite football club, will switch on its floodlights at 9.30pm. A picture of the missing four-year-old shows her in the team's kit.

The Sun wrote:
Candle lit vigil for Maddie [color:4070=000000]The Sun

By VERONICA LORRAINE in Praia da Luz, Additional reporting: MARTIN PHILLIPS
Published: Today

KATE and Gerry McCann today attended a church service to mark the one year anniversary of their daughter Madeleine's disappearance.

The couple held hands as they walked alongside members of their community to the Anglican Parish Church of St Mary and St John, near their home in Rothley, Leicestershire.

The McCanns’ relatives will lead the tearful tribute by lighting "flames of remembrance" at 9.15pm tonight in their home village of Rothley, Leicestershire, marking the exact time they believe Maddie was snatched from her holiday apartment in the resort.

by sweetex 16.10.13 21:05

JackieL wrote:Just an aside to all this, but something which was commented on at the time and has always seemed very odd were the timings chosen during the first anniversary events:(REFERENCES THANKS TO THE MCCANNFILES):

Mirror 2008 wrote:
One year on: Light a candle for missing Madeleine McCann [color:60e1=000000]Daily Mirror

Exclusive by Martin Fricker
03/05/2008

It is exactly one year from that terrible moment when Kate McCann discovered her daughter Madeleine missing from bed.

The anguished mum and husband Gerry are asking everyone to mark the anniversary at 9.15pm by lighting a candle and praying for their four-year-old's safe return.

Tonight Everton, Madeleine's favourite football club, will switch on its floodlights at 9.30pm. A picture of the missing four-year-old shows her in the team's kit.

The Sun wrote:
Candle lit vigil for Maddie [color:60e1=000000]The Sun

By VERONICA LORRAINE in Praia da Luz, Additional reporting: MARTIN PHILLIPS
Published: Today

KATE and Gerry McCann today attended a church service to mark the one year anniversary of their daughter Madeleine's disappearance.

The couple held hands as they walked alongside members of their community to the Anglican Parish Church of St Mary and St John, near their home in Rothley, Leicestershire.

The McCanns’ relatives will lead the tearful tribute by lighting "flames of remembrance" at 9.15pm tonight in their home village of Rothley, Leicestershire, marking the exact time they believe Maddie was snatched from her holiday apartment in the resort.

Wow interesting find!!

by Mirage 16.10.13 21:27

JackieL that is an amazing find.

It brings back a vivid memory because I lit a candle at the exact time, 9.15pm. This is one of the reasons I get angry because I was, along with many, suckered in by the McCs initially. When I saw through them it was a real shock and severely tested my faith in humankind. That is why I am here.

by JackieL 16.10.13 22:02

Mirage wrote:
It brings back a vivid memory because I lit a candle at the exact time, 9.15pm. This is one of the reasons I get angry because I was, along with many, suckered in by the McCs initially. When I saw through them it was a real shock and severely tested my faith in humankind. That is why I am here.

Great post Mirage, but sad. Never give up on humankind. empathy

by sallypelt 16.10.13 22:06

T @aartitwit: Statement of Jeronimo Salcedas describing a terrible scream like nothing he had ever heard 9.30-10pm by Kate #McCann http:/…

by Mirage 16.10.13 22:14

JackieL wrote:
Mirage wrote:
It brings back a vivid memory because I lit a candle at the exact time, 9.15pm. This is one of the reasons I get angry because I was, along with many, suckered in by the McCs initially. When I saw through them it was a real shock and severely tested my faith in humankind. That is why I am here.
Great post Mirage, but sad. Never give up on humankind.

No, I haven't given up on humankind, of course, JackieL. smilie

What I really object to is the way this pair have plundered the good faith and purses of well-meaning people. At the time I was suffering a terrible bereavement myself but made room in my heart for these people, not really focusing on anything other than a loss I could identify with. This is why I feel so strongly about it all now I suppose and that feeling has turned into a burning desire to see justice for the child

by Montclair 16.10.13 22:41

Nereid wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:
dragonfly wrote:After 20.30, the witness and his wife, after looking at the children, went to the Tapas Bar, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner. As usual, every half hour and as the restaurant was near, the witness or his wife, would check whether the children were all right. In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine. "He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant."

How on earth has Gerry Managed to go to tapas bar leave Kate and be gone a long time watching football which caused Kate to Moan 'Words from Jane Tanners mouth' during this small time frame? If Gerry was watching football else where ? Who was he watching football with? Why he leave the group ?
Neil Berry, in his rog interview, mentions that he and Raj Balu watched football in a local bar on two different nights that week.

I wonder where, and what days...?
1 May 2007
1 May 2007 - Semi-finals
Full time »
Liverpool 1-0 Chelsea
Aggregate: 1-1 Liverpool 4-1 win on penalties
Referee: Manuel Mejuto González (ESP) – Stadium: Anfield, Liverpool (ENG)
2 May 2007
2 May 2007 - Semi-finals
Full time »
Milan 3-0 Man. United
Aggregate: 5-3
Referee: Frank De Bleeckere (BEL) – Stadium: Stadio Giuseppe Meazza, Milan (ITA)
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2006/matches/round=2360/index.html

Pubs, Bars & Clubs

There is a nice selection of pubs and bars around Luz most of which are situated close to the main square. However, there are others so do not limit your choice to this area only.
A couple of the pubs also offer excellent food, but you may need to book in advance due to their popularity.
Quizzes are very popular during the busier seasons, with both Kelly's and the restaurant Chaplins hold regular quizzes, which are always great entertainment, and above all else, good fun. Live sport is also shown in Kelly's, The Bull and The Duke.

http://www.casajags.co.uk/html/the_resort.html

There was a semi final match for the UEFA Cup between Sevilla and Osasuna, on 3 May 2007, which started at 19h45 and would normally have ended at about 21h30.

by JackieL 16.10.13 22:46

sallypelt wrote:T @aartitwit: Statement of Jeronimo Salcedas describing a terrible scream like nothing he had ever heard 9.30-10pm by Kate #McCann http:/…

bump

by Guest 16.10.13 23:06

I may be missing something (no surprise if I am) but I can't see any significance in the timing of 9.15 in the articles about the 1st anniversary. This is of course when Jane Tanner claimed she said the Egg Man. Matt Oldfield didn't notice Madeleine on his visit at 9.30 and then Kate made the discovery around 10.

Now of course we know after all this time that Jane saw someone who had nothing to do with the "abduction"......

by Woofer 16.10.13 23:10

"Property Manager Barend Weijdom heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 – 21.40 from P.B., a Dutchman and owner of the Atlántico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine. He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 – 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present. When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed."

So if Barend Weijdom head it from PB the Dutchman at about 21.30 - 21.40 when they passed by in the street, the Dutchman could have heard it some time previous to that, say 21.20 - 21.30.

Its looking more and more as though the furore started around 21.20. soon after Gerry`s supposed check and his meeting with JW. So I can`t see how the Matt check at 9.30 fits in. I`ve always thought Matt knew something but didn`t want to incriminate himself, so preferred to say he didn`t go right into the room.

At some time a dead body was rested in the garden by the gate. Was she handed over to someone soon after 9ish? Then collected about 9.45 - 9.50 and carried to somewhere down near the beach?

by Woofer 16.10.13 23:22

I didn`t realise someone had tried to say that the quizz lady had joined them on the night of the 3rd, but it was found from her statement that this was in fact Tuesday the 1st. Not sure who said this or if it was a media distortion.

So he wasn`t watching football on the night of Tuesday 1st between 9.30 - 9.50 because thats when he was chatting to the quizz lady. Or would the football have finished by then?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id156.html

by Mirage 16.10.13 23:24

Woofer wrote:"Property Manager Barend Weijdom heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 – 21.40 from P.B., a Dutchman and owner of the Atlántico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine. He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 – 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present. When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed."

So if Barend Weijdom head it from PB the Dutchman at about 21.30 - 21.40 when they passed by in the street, the Dutchman could have heard it some time previous to that, say 21.20 - 21.30.

Its looking more and more as though the furore started around 21.20. soon after Gerry`s supposed check and his meeting with JW. So I can`t see how the Matt check at 9.30 fits in. I`ve always thought Matt knew something but didn`t want to incriminate himself, so preferred to say he didn`t go right into the room.

At some time a dead body was rested in the garden by the gate. Was she handed over to someone soon after 9ish? Then collected about 9.45 - 9.50 and carried to somewhere down near the beach?

Ages ago I'm sure I read that when the group were all flying about "searching" one of the women - possibly RM - had made to check the stairwell, whereupon she met, I think it was FP, descending the steps and saying there was no need for her to go up there, she'd already checked. I've looked through the statements several times since but could never find that ref again. But it really stuck in my mind that those steps/patio were a no-go area at that point. Does anyone else have a recollection of this? I'm sure I didn't dream it.

by Vicky87 13.05.14 1:06

Only just found out about this football comment..and wow. How come a big deal hasn't been made of this? 5/10 minutes isnt long enough to be gone for Kate to be moaning about him watching footie?

by worriedmum 13.05.14 9:13

Where was Gerry 9,30 - 10.00pm? - Page 4 Timeline040507

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I may be missing something (no surprise if I am) but I can't see any significance in the timing of 9.15 in the articles about the 1st anniversary. This is of course when Jane Tanner claimed she said the Egg Man. Matt Oldfield didn't notice Madeleine on his visit at 9.30 and then Kate made the discovery around 10.

Now of course we know after all this time that Jane saw someone who had nothing to do with the "abduction"......

When did Gerry have his 'proud father moment'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXtBWNCFt7U 9.15 onwards

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 9:38

worriedmum wrote:
When did Gerry have his 'proud father moment'?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXtBWNCFt7U 9.15 onwards

On a side note, I've mentioned before that I believe that within the line:

Gerry McCann looks at room. A ? Door open to bedroom.

'A' stands for 'Abductor'.

by joyce1938 13.05.14 10:45

We can infact look and read all they wrote down etc etc. and I fear you can not believe all that they are telling about that last night. so its lots of energy taken up by this ,yes its understandable .I just don't feel there is enou. It seems we have been over and over all this ,and still cant take what is said and timings to be valuable . joyce1938.

by Woofer 13.05.14 12:06

joyce1938 wrote:We can infact look and read all they wrote down etc etc. and I fear you can not believe all that they are telling about that last night. so its lots of energy taken up by this ,yes its understandable .I just don't feel there is enou. It seems we have been over and over all this ,and still cant take what is said and timings to be valuable . joyce1938.

I agree Joyce - the list was manufactured to fit something IMO - so it can`t be given any credence.

by suzyjohnson 15.05.14 16:48

tigger wrote:' and there is no doubt that not being here at that moment, increased the risk of it....'

Well Gerry, if you'd been there at that moment, it wouldn't have happened.
I hope he doesn't diagnose his patients using the same searing logic

Is the above quote exactly what Gerry said?

If there is any truth in the comment, (it doesn't seem to apply to an abduction) however what it does seem to tell us is that, the McCanns were not present at the moment that 'it' happened.

Then we have Kate's comment, 'I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children alone ....' [which actually an abduction would have been] '...... I know 'it' happened under other circumstances'

My guess is an accident whilst Gerry was at tennis and Kate was taking a shower at just after 6 pm on the 3rd.

by suzyjohnson 15.05.14 16:51

Vicky87 wrote:Only just found out about this football comment..and wow. How come a big deal hasn't been made of this? 5/10 minutes isnt long enough to be gone for Kate to be moaning about him watching footie?

There's so many comments like this Vicky87 that SY don't appear to be taking any notice of.

by suzyjohnson 15.05.14 16:59

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I may be missing something (no surprise if I am) but I can't see any significance in the timing of 9.15 in the articles about the 1st anniversary. This is of course when Jane Tanner claimed she said the Egg Man. Matt Oldfield didn't notice Madeleine on his visit at 9.30 and then Kate made the discovery around 10.

Now of course we know after all this time that Jane saw someone who had nothing to do with the "abduction"......

It does prove, as though we didn't know this already, that the McCanns really, really wanted to pin the abduction time down to 9.15 pm.

If the McCann's story were genuine you would assume that, even though 9.15 pm looked to them like a possible abduction time, that they would still want to keep the time frame open to include the possibility that the abduction occurred at any time between 9.10 pm until 10 pm. The same with Tannerman, why was he promoted and the Smithman efits withheld?

by suzyjohnson 15.05.14 17:22

Mirage said, 'Ages ago I'm sure I read that when the group were all flying about "searching" one of the women - possibly RM - had made to check the stairwell, whereupon she met, I think it was FP, descending the steps and saying there was no need for her to go up there, she'd already checked. I've looked through the statements several times since but could never find that ref again. But it really stuck in my mind that those steps/patio were a no-go area at that point. Does anyone else have a recollection of this? I'm sure I didn't dream it'

Not sure but I think it was Jane Tanner talking to Fiona Payne outside Jane's apartment just after 10 pm, this is from Jane's rogatory interview,

' ...... as you come into the flats there’s sort of a passageway and there’s flats above so there’s a roof and there’s a passageway, it’s really badly described, but they came running along there and they were shouting ‘Madeleine’ and they were like looking in the stairwell and what have you. And Fi started running upstairs and that’s when I ran to Fi and said what I thought, you know, I said ‘I think I’ve seen somebody’ .......'

by Guest 15.05.14 17:24

What I don't understand is that JT beat her self up about seeing Tannerman and not doing anything at the time.
And then we have GM not beating himself up about also being there at the time and not looking up the road and seeing his daughter being "abducted".
He has said words to the effect that they were not there at the "moment". But according to OFM and the persistence of TM he was there. Apparently.