Re: The Mark Williams-Thomas thread

[Tony Bennett]

I must confess I hadn't heard of Mark Williams-Thomas until his Jimmy Savile "Exposure"...I tweeted Saint Mark soon after - nothing rude or nasty, just questioning - and was immediately blocked...

Judging by the comments on this thread alone, if a new Facebook group were to be set up called "I've been blocked by Mark Williams-Thomas", there would be a lot of people eligible to join!

[whmon]

I would worry though - that the person posting these articles was trying to 'keep a lid on it' to protect others at risk of being 'unearthed'. Welcome too by the way Retro Chris!

[Flickyhecky]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ive-been-blocked-by-Mark-Williams-Thomas/522810787785441

I was running the bath...what else was i supposed to do?

Also, I will post as full details as I can in due course, a colleague of mine is piecing together the history of this matter (MWT and Adrian Sharp) and as soon as I have the details, I'll post them here...or Retro Chris will!

[ChrisRetro]

I would worry though - that the person posting these articles was trying to 'keep a lid on it' to protect others at risk of being 'unearthed'. Welcome by the way!

I'm sure any such worries will be eradicated once you have read a few of the articles - it's certainly a "scandal" alright...

But at least it is a platform for real 'facts' and 'evidence', something that has been absent from all hysterical coverage of the media circus of the past year. I'm not here to defend JS or anyone else - just to discuss the man known on several forums as Mark Williams-Tosspot and throw some more information on his "career" out there for you to digest as you so wish.

[Penfold]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ive-been-blocked-by-Mark-Williams-Thomas/522810787785441

I was running the bath...what else was i supposed to do?

 It would have been rude not to!

[whmon]

I would worry though - that the person posting these articles was trying to 'keep a lid on it' to protect others at risk of being 'unearthed'. Welcome by the way!

I'm sure any such worries will be eradicated once you have read a few of the articles - it's certainly a "scandal" alright...

But at least it is a platform for real 'facts' and 'evidence', something that has been absent from all hysterical coverage of the media circus of the past year. I'm not here to defend JS or anyone else - just to discuss the man known on several forums as Mark Williams-Tosspot and throw some more information on his "career" out there for you to digest as you so wish.

I'm afraid I'm not convinced at all. I've read a few of the articles - all very pro 'Sir' Jimmy Savile, which all seem to suggest he was innocent because his guilt can't be proved. However, the first article states:

In a similar vein of hyperbole, Peter Spindler, the Metropolitan Police commander in charge of the inquiry named Operation Yewtree, claimed that the former DJ had ‘groomed the nation’. Really? Savile’s alleged offences were, indeed, remarkably extensive. But to suggest that he single-handedly somehow made victims of us all is preposterous. It is to attribute him with vastly more malignant power than he possessed. Moreover, Commander Spindler’s phrase implicitly lays all the blame on Savile, whereas it seems that other celebrities were also guilty of  sex crimes against children. He may have been by far the worst offender, but he wasn’t the only one. (My bold) The report is so unremitting in its presumption of guilt on every count that one can’t help wondering whether the police are not trying to atone for their indulgence of the ghastly man when he was alive

[ChrisRetro]

I would worry though - that the person posting these articles was trying to 'keep a lid on it' to protect others at risk of being 'unearthed'. Welcome by the way!

I'm sure any such worries will be eradicated once you have read a few of the articles - it's certainly a "scandal" alright...

But at least it is a platform for real 'facts' and 'evidence', something that has been absent from all hysterical coverage of the media circus of the past year. I'm not here to defend JS or anyone else - just to discuss the man known on several forums as Mark Williams-Tosspot and throw some more information on his "career" out there for you to digest as you so wish.

I'm afraid I'm not convinced at all. I've read a few of the articles - all very pro 'Sir' Jimmy Savile, which all seem to suggest he was innocent because his guilt can't be proved. However, the first article states:

In a similar vein of hyperbole, Peter Spindler, the Metropolitan Police commander in charge of the inquiry named Operation Yewtree, claimed that the former DJ had ‘groomed the nation’. Really? Savile’s alleged offences were, indeed, remarkably extensive. But to suggest that he single-handedly somehow made victims of us all is preposterous. It is to attribute him with vastly more malignant power than he possessed. Moreover, Commander Spindler’s phrase implicitly lays all the blame on Savile, whereas it seems that other celebrities were also guilty of  sex crimes against children. He may have been by far the worst offender, but he wasn’t the only one. (My bold) The report is so unremitting in its presumption of guilt on every count that one can’t help wondering whether the police are not trying to atone for their indulgence of the ghastly man when he was alive

 They are not my articles - and this isn't a Jimmy Savile forum or thread.

This is, however, a thread on a man who presented an abysmal television shockumentary as a "fait accompli" and has refused to answer questions - or indeed even give an unscripted interview.
Anyone not believing his hyperbole is either blocked, or 'rounded on' by his moronic cheerleading supporters.
When someone behaves in that manner it is quite obvious to me they are not interested in "the truth" - whatever that truth may be.

The place to debate the above would be on the relevant articles, which I've no doubt the author would be answer any relevant questions. The matters relevant to this thread are the work of Mark Williams-Thomas, who has been busy purchasing a large country house with the proceeds of his endeavour.

[tigger]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ive-been-blocked-by-Mark-Williams-Thomas/522810787785441

I was running the bath...what else was i supposed to do?

Also, I will post as full details as I can in due course, a colleague of mine is piecing together the history of this matter (MWT and Adrian Sharp) and as soon as I have the details, I'll post them here...or Retro Chris will!

 I'm getting lost here - are you and retro chris an item?  If so, can you decide which one of you will post? 

This thread has suddenly become a Savile thread  -  not a MTW thread.

[aiyoyo]

Not quite as bad as a Sun or Daily Mirror report but here is the great detectives take on what happened to Madeleine.



Madeleine: 'My Theories On Missing Girl'

2:35pm UK, Thursday 01 May 2008


By Mark Williams-Thomas

As a criminologist, former detective and authority on paedophile crimes, I have followed the Madeleine McCann case from the very beginning.

What happened to her on that fateful night in May 2007? Where is she now, is she alive or dead? Was she murdered in her parent's apartment, and if so by whom?

Was she abducted from where she slept in between her brother and sister who remained asleep throughout?

Or did she wander out of the apartment looking for her parents and become the victim of an opportunistic predatory paedophile, who either used her for his own sexual gratification or smuggled her out of the country?

With apparent sightings in Morocco, Spain, France and the Netherlands you could easily believe the latter.

The most sinister of all these questions was whether Gerry and Kate McCann were involved with the disappearance of their own daughter.

In order to establish answers it is necessary to examine the police investigation.

The detailed examination of a scene plays a crucial part in any major investigation and after a critical incident like this, all police officers know it is vital to preserve the crime scene, build the foundations, complete forensics and identify possible witnesses immediately.

But I saw no evidence of this being done and it was without any doubt, the worst-preserved crime scene I have ever witnessed.

This investigation is like no other I have seen before or will hopefully ever see again.

For the past year the Portuguese police have had two lines of inquiry: the first, that Gerry and Kate were involved in Madeleine's disappearance and the second, that a stranger abducted her.

However, they have focused steadfastly on their first line of enquiry.

The public prosecutor's office in the Algarve believes police should keep looking for evidence against the McCanns even though doubt is being raised from other quarters, with officials in the Portuguese government asking for their arguido status to be lifted.

The investigation is all but closed and recent interviews with the 'Tapas Seven' revealed no new leads or discrepancies but did allow the police to establish the exact movements of Gerry and Kate both on the evening Madeleine disappeared and on the previous evening.

The next major development will be if Portuguese police manage to stage a reconstruction so they can examine the behaviour of all parties concerned - but this would put Gerry and Kate back under Portuguese jurisdiction.

It is quite correct for the police to consider the parents as suspects but what evidence do they have against them?

The time line is crucial. The last time Madeleine was seen by anyone independently was around 6.30pm with the alarm raised at 10pm, thus establishing a window of opportunity of approximately three-and-a-half hours.

However, both Gerry and Kate were with their friends in the tapas bar from approximately 8.30pm, only ever being away from the table for short periods of time.

So one or more of the parents did have the opportunity - but what would be the motive? Could it have been an accident or a deliberate act?

I don't believe for one minute it would have been deliberate so therefore could she have suffered an accident, causing the parents to panic?

At this point they could easily have explained away an accident.

But, if the theory is to be believed, they would have had to cold-bloodedly dispose of her body and then return to have dinner with their friends.

It is possible as most murdered children are killed by a relative or someone they know. The police are working on this premise although in this particular case this is where the theory falls down.

The police believe they hid Madeleine's body and didn't return to the location until five weeks later where - under the watchful glare of the world's media - they placed her by now decomposed body into the rear of their Renault Megane hire car before completely disposing of it.

The police have come to this conclusion because they have found partial DNA in the boot of the hire car, which I believe has either come from transfer when they moved Madeleine's clothes and belongings or even from those of her brother or sister.

While trafficking of children is a far greater problem than is acknowledged, Madeleine does not fit the profile.

Girls are trafficked for two reasons: into the sex trade as prostitutes or for domestic slavery, both with financial gain to the seller and purchaser. Who was to gain from her trafficking?

I believe the so-called sightings in other countries, although genuinely intended, are a distraction and prove to be of little value after the initial two weeks. Who is going to openly walk out with the most wanted child in the world?

I believe what happened on May 3 was that Madeleine woke up, cried for a short while, realised her parents weren't in the apartment as they had not come in to settle her, so she climbed out of bed and walked around the apartment.

She found the back patio door was insecure and partly open so she walked out, went down the small flight of steps and out of the gate, turning right down towards the entrance to the resort and the Tapas bar.

It was at this point that she was most likely abducted by an opportunistic predatory paedophile.

Interestingly the police dogs first tracked a scent down this exact route. Unfortunately, although it is within range of the supermarket CCTV it was not working.

I don't believe a paedophile was watching the apartment nor do I believe an offender entered the apartment - this would be too high-risk.

I accept that statistically the abduction of a child is very rare, with approximately six children abducted every year in the UK, but if we look at the abduction and murder of Sarah Payne we can see how my theory stands up.

On July 1, 2000, Sarah was playing a game of hide and seek in a cornfield with her sister and two brothers, received a knock on the head and decided to walk back to her grandparents' home.

She walked through a gap in the hedge with her brothers' only seconds behind - but by the time they reached the lane, Sarah had disappeared.

One of the brothers saw a white van coming down the road towards him, its wheels spinning. The driver seemed in a hurry to get away. Unknown to them, the man behind the wheel had just abducted Sarah. She was taken in a matter of seconds.

This is why I believe even with such a small window of opportunity - the distance between the back entrance to the apartment and the 40 yard walk to the Tapas bar - that Madeleine became the victim of an opportunist and predatory paedophile who either lived in or had direct contacts with Praia da Luz.

This is not a resort that you would just happen upon.

If he was contracted to the Mccann, he has to be biased.
Which is a twisted irony since he claims to be a Child Protection agent, and Madeleine is the child here who needs such an agent to be objective. Logic tells us laymen that last person to have seen the child has to be eliminated. Also statistics show crime against young children are invariably perpetrated by parent/s or family member. Yet MWT was quick to jump on the bandwagon to stand up for her parents. Unbelievable, from someone who professed to be pro-children welfare.

[Guest]

Exactly Aiyoyo, in the same way that no private defective - sorry, detective - hired by the McCanns would report back to say that all the evidence points to them.
 
Tigger, I don't think it's too off topic to talk about Jimmy Savile here as MWT has made his name in such a big way with his programme last year.
 
I will though draw new members' attention to the current Jimmy Savile (and others) abuse topic.
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7093-jimmy-savile-plus-many-others-involved-in-the-abuse-scandal?highlight=jimmy

[whmon]

Chris Retro, do you know MWT personally? - I get the feeling you do.

[aiyoyo]

And Matters2Me has a website: http://matters2me.co.uk/

They sold a DVD that was so hugely popular that it's now sold out. But don't fret, it's still available to watch online for only £7.75:


 

 Wonder how much of that is donated to some kind of charity to protect children

None of the title is about how to keep children safe against predator/paedophile.
I notice one of the titles is *grooming*..........hmm..............?

[tigger]

I meant that information gets buried in another topic and is hard to retrieve.  

Here is imo a useful snippet from the other MWT topic.


Mark Williams-Thomas started a company W.T. ASSOCIATES LTD.on the [b style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "]10th June 2007[/b]

as well as another company MATTERS2ME LIMITED - which was also started on the same date. 

Mr. Mark Williams Thomas and Mrs. Karen Williams-Thomas are both listed as directors of both firms.

[Nereid]

I meant that information gets buried in another topic and is hard to retrieve.  

Here is imo a useful snippet from the other MWT topic.


Mark Williams-Thomas started a company W.T. ASSOCIATES LTD.on the [b style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"]10th June 2007[/b]

as well as another company MATTERS2ME LIMITED - which was also started on the same date. 

Mr. Mark Williams Thomas and Mrs. Karen Williams-Thomas are both listed as directors of both firms.

 Loopzdaloop already posted this info and much much more on page 5 of this thread.

[aiyoyo]

 Flickyhecky.
 
I remember the case of Adrian Stark. I'm sure that the story would have made the papers without the alleged intervention of MWT so I don't feel that he is responsible for hounding this man to his death.
 
I certainly agree with you though that his current motives and behaviour are very questionable.

It is besides the point whether the story would eventually make it to the press.

If the allegation is true, then the fact that MWT decides to sell the story to the paper shows him to be a money-grabbing scumbag who would do anything for a few quick buck.  And, he was still a constable then - that's the last thing one expects a copper to do.

[tigger]

I meant that information gets buried in another topic and is hard to retrieve.  

Here is imo a useful snippet from the other MWT topic.


Mark Williams-Thomas started a company W.T. ASSOCIATES LTD.on the [b style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"]10th June 2007[/b]

as well as another company MATTERS2ME LIMITED - which was also started on the same date. 

Mr. Mark Williams Thomas and Mrs. Karen Williams-Thomas are both listed as directors of both firms.

 Loopzdaloop already posted this info and much much more on page 5 of this thread.

I know - I re-posted this 'bullet' because the timing  and the fact that both companies were set up on the same day  just a month after 3/5 is an important fact in considering MWT's  role.

[jozi]

I meant that information gets buried in another topic and is hard to retrieve.  

Here is imo a useful snippet from the other MWT topic.


Mark Williams-Thomas started a company W.T. ASSOCIATES LTD.on the [b style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "]10th June 2007[/b]

as well as another company MATTERS2ME LIMITED - which was also started on the same date. 

Mr. Mark Williams Thomas and Mrs. Karen Williams-Thomas are both listed as directors of both firms.

Interesting tigger, wonder if / when they got the contract to speak on behalf of the Mcs ? Now were these companies set up to cater initially for the Mcs abduction, being started on the 10th June 2007 and bringing with it a celebrity status for the company and a ex policeman fame and recognition ?
Pity we cant find out who were the client list when the company first took off

[Nereid]

I meant that information gets buried in another topic and is hard to retrieve.  

Here is imo a useful snippet from the other MWT topic.


Mark Williams-Thomas started a company W.T. ASSOCIATES LTD.on the [b style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"]10th June 2007[/b]

as well as another company MATTERS2ME LIMITED - which was also started on the same date. 

Mr. Mark Williams Thomas and Mrs. Karen Williams-Thomas are both listed as directors of both firms.

 Loopzdaloop already posted this info and much much more on page 5 of this thread.

I know - I re-posted this 'bullet' because the timing  and the fact that both companies were set up on the same day  just a month after 3/5 is an important fact in considering MWT's  role.

It is indeed. Such timing!

From what  I understand it was first set up as Matters2Me Ltd, and then the name was changed to WT Associates Ltd. on 13 October 2010. I wonder why. And of course they're still also using Matters2Me for their website.

Mark Williams-Thomas was an authority on chewing gum removal in a previous life. A huge leap form Chewing Gum removal to Child Protection.

"Mark Williams-Thomas from GumFighters said: “We are pleased to be working to create a cleaner and healthier environment for those living and working in the borough of Wandsworth and visitors. However it is very important that people realise the damage caused by discarded gum and dispose of it correctly.” http://ww3.wandsworth.gov.uk/news/pressreleasedetail.asp?id=1320

[Tony Bennett]

 Loopzdaloop already posted this info and much much more on page 5 of this thread.

I know - I re-posted this 'bullet' because the timing and the fact that both companies were set up on the same day just a month after 3/5 is an important fact in considering MWT's role.

Another point to establish is just when, and by whom, and for what reason, Mark Williams-Thomas was first appointed by SKY News (Murdoch-owned) to comment on cases of child sexual abuse and paedophilia etc. I assume that SKY News paid for him to go out to Praia da Luz immediately after the reported disappearance of Madeleine McCann, hence his interview to camera on 10 May 2007 when he presumed to give advice to the Portuguese Police. Did he get paid by SKY News per assignment, or was he on some sort of long-term contract with them?

[Tony Bennett]

Mark Williams-Thomas was an authority on chewing gum removal in a previous life..."Mark Williams-Thomas from GumFighters said: “We are pleased to be working to create a cleaner and healthier environment.."

Mark Williams Thomas wanted more -
So a rise to the top was in store
From a humble DC
To docs on TV
The former gum expert's hard to ignore!

[Guest]

From being an expert on getting gum off shoes, he became a gumshoe (slang name for a detective or investigator).

Well done that man!

[sallypelt]

For what it's worth, his full name is Mark Alan Williams-Thomas, born in Cambridge in 1970

[windchime]

So this character turns up within a month of MBMs disappearance - correct?

When did he leave PDL and why?

Does anyone know if he or his wife have any links (however coincidental - as this case seems to hinge on coincidence) to any of the McCanns, family, tapas friends, either through work, living within 10 miles of one of them, having gone to university with one of them, etc.?

The biggest thing that really stands out to me when I read through both of these threads regarding this person, is his complete dismissal of the Gaspar statement (seems everyone wants to dismiss this statement) - now why would he do that and it makes me want to ask - does/did he know the same person the social worker knew she recognised??

Also in his first findings regarding MBMs disappearance he tells us that the PJ are only following 2 lines of enquiry into MBMs disappearance that of K & G being involved or a stranger having abducted her yet he makes NO mention whatsoever of Murat - again why not?

When you read his 'articles' it makes me feel like he is deliberately not mentioning certain people and important facts and is attempting to 'sway' the reader into believing his article as though it were written by a senior Police Officer/Criminologist who has inside information.  Just how many people have read these and believed what he has to say?

[sallypelt]

So this character turns up within a month of MBMs disappearance - correct?

When did he leave PDL and why?

Does anyone know if he or his wife have any links (however coincidental - as this case seems to hinge on coincidence) to any of the McCanns, family, tapas friends, either through work, living within 10 miles of one of them, having gone to university with one of them, etc.?

The biggest thing that really stands out to me when I read through both of these threads regarding this person, is his complete dismissal of the Gaspar statement (seems everyone wants to dismiss this statement) - now why would he do that and it makes me want to ask - does/did he know the same person the social worker knew she recognised??

Also in his first findings regarding MBMs disappearance he tells us that the PJ are only following 2 lines of enquiry into MBMs disappearance that of K & G being involved or a stranger having abducted her yet he makes NO mention whatsoever of Murat - again why not?

When you read his 'articles' it makes me feel like he is deliberately not mentioning certain people and important facts and is attempting to 'sway' the reader into believing his article as though it were written by a senior Police Officer/Criminologist who has inside information.  Just how many people have read these and believed what he has to say?

Mark Williams-Thomas, a former policeman and managing director of WT Associates, a PR company specialized in child protection....., urged Portuguese police to ditch the case against the McCann – a case that he classified as “ludicrous” - and follow another lead that he thinks could take PJ to the real kidnapper.

MWT was already in Portugal by the 10th May 2007, and according to this Youtube video, has been there for "a few days"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqKSjwwVSuM

[ChrisRetro]

Chris Retro, do you know MWT personally? - I get the feeling you do.

No - I'm not from that neck of the woods and have never encountered Tosspot other than via his beloved media. The info on his new house? He treats Twitter as his own personal fan site, and loves to show his "fans" photographs of kittens, treehouses etc; so it is easy to glean such information from there. 

There really is no need to read anything into my contribution to this thread other than what I have posted.
The soon-to-be Doctor Williams-Thomas is a media charlatan in all of his "projects", his Twitter followers consist predominantly of  commercial accounts ('followers' that can be purchased as a package if you want to appear 'important' or popular), people in the media he is desperate to ingratiate himself with to further his cause (the cause of Mark Alan Williams-Thomas and WT Associates no less) and a handful of idiots he has convinced of his saintliness.