Re: A TENSE SITUATION by Dr Martin Roberts

by **tigger** 04.04.14 18:35

Garrincha wrote:I hope I don’t sound too po-faced about all of this. IMO a sense of humour is VITAL to mental health and I have laughed out loud at many of these type of posts (esp. those from Peter Mac). So this is just a suggestion: could we maybe have a general “funny” thread where these posts could be enjoyed, and keep the serious stuff separate (& on track)?

If you go back to posts a fewyears old you will see that there is more or less the same mix of 'gallows' humour and serious research.
Nothing has changed except - my opinion entirely - some members here now find it offensive and berate the fellow members in public.
Having a special corner where we're allowed to be 'naughty' smacks a little too much of kindergarten. As long as the posts aren't derogatory to members or litigeous under British law I can't see a problem.

This is a very serious subject, with wide-ranging research from many members. if jokes are going to be censored we might as well give up. People in unpleasant jobs do the same thing. it's an escape valve.
You don't have to find them funny, it's not mandatory. Ifyou don't like the remarks, ignore them.

Your last few posts seem to be about the tone of the forum being lowered in your opinion, so do have a look a few years back and you might find much the same tone.

Otherwise we might as well be mumsnet.

by Cristobell 04.04.14 18:43

j.rob wrote:Personally, I think Kate and Gerry are open season. You reap what you sow. Gerry's IQ is a perfectly reasonable topic of debate. Of considerably more relevance to the disappearance of Madeleine than Romany gypsies, pimple men, Tanner men and so so.

I would actually suggest that an intense scrutiny of the McCann's characters, personalities, backgrounds and much else besides would probably throw considerable light on this case. The type of scrutiny they would be subjected to in a court of law where some Rottweiler of a prosecution lawyer is digging up the dirt from their pasts.

I am with you on this Rob, I think much will be revealed about the characters of the McCanns, and indeed several members of their family, when it all comes to trial. Psychopaths,narcissists etc, don't become that way overnight, whatever Kate and Gerry are now, they were the same before Madeleine disappeared. In the days before Madeleine disappeared, they were putting the kids in the creche mornings and afternoons and Kate was whingeing about being ignored by Gerry. And of course, who can forget Gerry's words as they arrived in PDL 'f*** off, I'm not here to enjoy myself'. Just the words a wife wants to hear while surrounded by her closest friends.

Kate's book exhibit 'KH1' tells us very little about their lives, and the little it does tell us, sounds false. The incident with Madeleine and her Early Learning crash trolley is just bizarre. As the relative has a heart attack, the cardiologist goes to make the telephone call whilst his heavily pregnant wife is left to deal with the patient. They really are clueless in an emergency. The book is phoney and the characters are phoney, and the people who know the McCanns have kept quiet. Interesting times ahead methinks.

by Guest 04.04.14 19:03

Phoney is one of the words IMO too.
As has been said before, this case will be a subject of being filleted for a long time to come, by psychiatrists, psychologists, criminologists, you name it ...

by Garrincha 04.04.14 19:17

Thanks for your reply Tigger

As you’ve checked out my posts I hope you’ll agree that I have not berated anyone nor did I say I found any of the posts offensive.

I understand gallows humour as a survival mechanism alright from my own work with frontline people (firefighters especially) but as far as I am aware none of us here are on this frontline in that way

I really don’t want to sidetrack things or stir anything up so I think it’s best if I just sign off from this discussion

by **tigger** 04.04.14 19:32

Garrincha wrote:Thanks for your reply Tigger

As you’ve checked out my posts I hope you’ll agree that I have not berated anyone nor did I say I found any of the posts offensive.

I understand gallows humour as a survival mechanism alright from my own work with frontline people (firefighters especially) but as far as I am aware none of us here are on this frontline in that way

I really don’t want to sidetrack things or stir anything up so I think it’s best if I just sign off from this discussion

No, I definitely didn't mean you - You're entitled to your opinion, I just gave mine on the naughty kiddies corner and referred to the way the forum was years ago.
No hard feelings, we agree to differ.

by Clocker 04.04.14 19:40

Garrincha wrote:Thanks for your reply Tigger

As you’ve checked out my posts I hope you’ll agree that I have not berated anyone nor did I say I found any of the posts offensive.

I understand gallows humour as a survival mechanism alright from my own work with frontline people (firefighters especially) but as far as I am aware none of us here are on this frontline in that way

I really don’t want to sidetrack things or stir anything up so I think it’s best if I just sign off from this discussion

I don't think you're stirring anything up, you've said how you feel and thats fair enough. I don't personally think people will change their ways though at your request and nor do i feel they should, no offence intended at all. The world is made up of people with different personalities who all have different methods of expression and not all people find offensive what the next person does.
I feel I made the mistake of voicing my opinion on a particular posting but hours later felt I was wrong to do so for the very reasons above. Freedom of expression, differing views and opinions, is what makes a forum interesting. If we don't like a certain style of posting, we should just move on to the next. :)

by j.rob 04.04.14 19:43

plebgate wrote:I might call him the wee man because many, many believe he takes the PISS.

Indeed. And watching him bursting out into an uncontrolled fit of giggles at the press conference in which an age-progressed picture of Madeleine was shown was yet more evidence of his 'game'.

This is cat and mouse stuff. And I am wondering whether, if after the Portuguese police shelved the case, they *might* have got away with it if they had put their heads under the parapet. Was this the 'get out of jail free' card that they were very generously handed as long as Gerry keep quiet about a few things. A sort of 'tit for tat'.

Timing is everything, though. And the McCanns just didn't know when to stop. While the money was still rolling in there was no shortage of vultures circling, happy to fuel the madness and keep the the money-go-round spinning.

But the megalomaniacs just couldn't stop. They managed to get Amaral's book banned in the UK but not elsewhere. While they might have (some) clout in the UK, they failed to realize their limitations. They did a good job of manipulating opinion in the UK, but, such was their megalomania that they thought they could take on the world.

A mistake. This whole case is somewhat reminiscent of Greek mythology.

by **tigger** 04.04.14 19:51

J.rob wrote:
A mistake. This whole case is somewhat reminiscent of Greek mythology
Unquote

Indeed, they bring it on themselves. I'd quite fancy myself as one of the eumenides. winkwink

by Cristobell 04.04.14 20:15

Châtelaine wrote:Phoney is one of the words IMO too.
As has been said before, this case will be a subject of being filleted for a long time to come, by psychiatrists, psychologists, criminologists, you name it ...

My thoughts too Chatelaine, I think this case will enter the textbooks of all sorts of 'ologies, probably media and politics too. Whatever our thoughts on the McCanns, they achieved the most phenomenal fake missing child campaign the world has ever seen.

by Garrincha 04.04.14 22:10

[size=18.66]Re my last post – on reflection, I wish to exclude from my comments and offer an apology to Tony Bennett, who HAS been right there on the front line in this case[/size]

by **Tony Bennett** 04.04.14 22:31

Garrincha wrote:Re my last post – on reflection, I wish to exclude from my comments and offer an apology to Tony Bennett, who HAS been right there on the front line in this case

Accepted - and thank you

by kimHager 04.04.14 23:02

I think it's obvious that no one tries to offend anyone here and humor does wonders for the soul especially in this depraved age we live in where it seems simple things like respect, common curtisy and just plain basic human rights are violated and demeaned. We have children that go missing and in so many cases its the very ppl who areä crew supposed to protect them that's caused the greatest harm. If it weren't for the few who fight back and still care.. You, me and those who have been there.... Where would they be? No one deserves to be forgotten especially a child. If a laugh comes from a post its a smile from the soul. We should all remember that even in these circumstances its Ok to laugh.

by Guest 04.04.14 23:50

kimHager wrote:I think it's obvious that no one tries to offend anyone here and humor does wonders for the soul especially in this depraved age we live in where it seems simple things like respect, common curtisy and just plain basic human rights are violated and demeaned. We have children that go missing and in so many cases its the very ppl who areä crew supposed to protect them that's caused the greatest harm. If it weren't for the few who fight back and still care.. You, me and those who have been there.... Where would they be? No one deserves to be forgotten especially a child. If a laugh comes from a post its a smile from the soul. We should all remember that even in these circumstances its Ok to laugh.

Unfortunately in most cases no one protects them. No one makes a stand. No one cares until it's too late. And this case is no different from many thousands of others in that respect. And just because you post on a social media forum, don't kid yourself that you are doing anything of real significance either. Child abuse is nothing to smile about.

by kimHager 05.04.14 0:54

Your right dantezebu, child abuse and neglect is becoming too common and I lived through my own experience which makes it something personal and close to my heart. I believe though if it's being brought out in the open even on a forum it may open someone's eyes to a situation they can help in. If even one child can be saved its absolutely worth it. No more hiding it and not having a voice. I'm not saying we are doing anything significant and I certainly wasn't implying abuse is something to laugh at. I think in some instances a little humor helps, as in people trying to lighten an intense or dark mood. However there is a time and place for it and never is it OK to laugh at or downplay abuse. Please don't think I was saying that. I know in my own life I'm glad I can still laugh and that I Didn't let my heart be hardened by things I lived thru.

by Cristobell 05.04.14 10:06

I don't think child abuse is becoming more common. I was in care as a child in the late 1960's early 1970's, more specifically in the care of the Catholic church. At that time abuse was rife, particularly in the late 1960's when some bright spark decided that we needed male role models and father figures. The adverts attracted every sadist, weirdo and nonce from all over the country, who wanted access to vulnerable young children. The nuns were very keen on physical punishment and such was the culture of the time, we were seen as the scum children of gypsies, tramps and thieves who needed more physical discipline than most. In effect, the agenda of the nuns and the lay staff was to turn us into compliant, subjugated citizens who would accept our lowly place in this world. We learned to keep our heads down and to flinch at every expected blow, it would amuse the nuns and the staff to randomly punch a child in the face, as it kept us all on our toes. Some of the men they employed could be quite inventive when it came to punishment and this was encouraged, mortification of the body is good for the soul, ie. pain takes us closer to God - think Opus Dei.

I am hoping that what I have described above no longer goes on, but experience has shown me that people who are that way inclined will worm their way into professions where they can practice their own particular deviancy under cover of good works, receiving accolades and praise for their compassionate natures, whereas the reality is, their 'good works' in any other sphere would get them an 8-10 stretch in a very secure prison.

by kimHager 05.04.14 15:10

Cristobell I am so sorry you experienced this. I think it was wrong for me to say its becoming more common, I believe I should have said more talked about. Abuse is wrong on any level no one in a position of power should abuse those entrusted to them .my apologies if my wording offended anyone that was definitely not my intention. Back to the mccanns... Their behavior may have raised red flags if it was discovered and discussed.... The neglect of the children at night.. Surely if this was going on someone would question it.. But if it wasn't going on or others was doing it also... Would they (tapas 7) risk losing their own children on a neglect charge especially when a child disappeared from neglect? If it was some abuse going on with the children, would they turn a blind eye? Only if they were involved or knew exactly what went on May 3rd or before...

by Cristobell 05.04.14 15:53

I didn't take any offence at all from anything you said Kim smilie

I just wanted to show how abuse occurred in the 1960's and 1970s - sadly, at that time, there was a free for all as there was little or no vetting of the creeps who applied to work as live in house fathers and mothers to children in care and religious fanatics were welcomed.

Hopefully things are different now Kim, and children are more enlightened and hopefully listened to. In the 60's and 70's the word of the adult always took precedence over the word of the child, especially 'bad' children who were in care.

For paedophilia to be involved in this case, then there must be victims. As children are not being snatched from our streets and hopefully the entire care industry has had an overhaul, then who is being abused? If there is a paedophile ring, and the victims come from 'normal' families with parental consent and that I find difficult to believe, although the tragic case of Baby P, showed us parents are capable of all sorts of evil.

by kimHager 05.04.14 22:14

Baby p ...and so many others that are too young to defend or have a chance.. It sickens me and angers me down to my core. I hate knowing this kind of evil exists but it does and that's why I want to see justice served for Maddy and others who are not forgotten. My heart breaks for them.

by maebee 05.04.14 23:36

Cristobell wrote:I don't think child abuse is becoming more common. I was in care as a child in the late 1960's early 1970's, more specifically in the care of the Catholic church. At that time abuse was rife, particularly in the late 1960's when some bright spark decided that we needed male role models and father figures. The adverts attracted every sadist, weirdo and nonce from all over the country, who wanted access to vulnerable young children. The nuns were very keen on physical punishment and such was the culture of the time, we were seen as the scum children of gypsies, tramps and thieves who needed more physical discipline than most. In effect, the agenda of the nuns and the lay staff was to turn us into compliant, subjugated citizens who would accept our lowly place in this world. We learned to keep our heads down and to flinch at every expected blow, it would amuse the nuns and the staff to randomly punch a child in the face, as it kept us all on our toes. Some of the men they employed could be quite inventive when it came to punishment and this was encouraged, mortification of the body is good for the soul, ie. pain takes us closer to God - think Opus Dei.

I am hoping that what I have described above no longer goes on, but experience has shown me that people who are that way inclined will worm their way into professions where they can practice their own particular deviancy under cover of good works, receiving accolades and praise for their compassionate natures, whereas the reality is, their 'good works' in any other sphere would get them an 8-10 stretch in a very secure prison.

I'm lost for words Cristobel Sad

:

by HelenMeg 07.04.14 10:47

j.rob wrote:
plebgate wrote:I might call him the wee man because many, many believe he takes the PISS.

Indeed. And watching him bursting out into an uncontrolled fit of giggles at the press conference in which an age-progressed picture of Madeleine was shown was yet more evidence of his 'game'.

This is cat and mouse stuff. And I am wondering whether, if after the Portuguese police shelved the case, they *might* have got away with it if they had put their heads under the parapet. Was this the 'get out of jail free' card that they were very generously handed as long as Gerry keep quiet about a few things. A sort of 'tit for tat'.

Timing is everything, though. And the McCanns just didn't know when to stop. While the money was still rolling in there was no shortage of vultures circling, happy to fuel the madness and keep the the money-go-round spinning.

But the megalomaniacs just couldn't stop. They managed to get Amaral's book banned in the UK but not elsewhere. While they might have (some) clout in the UK, they failed to realize their limitations. They did a good job of manipulating opinion in the UK, but, such was their megalomania that they thought they could take on the world.

A mistake. This whole case is somewhat reminiscent of Greek mythology.

You are so right - you seem to have caught the essence with Cat and Mouse and Greek Mythology.
I am thinking of that 'Stop the Pigeon' thing - was it the Wacky Races. I think we should come up with a
'myth' along the lines of Icharus etc that describes this... I am hopeless at mythology but do seem to remember that Icharus flew too close to the sun. These two are their own worst enemies.

by Judex Venturus 07.04.14 12:50

HelenMeg wrote:
j.rob wrote:

.....This whole case is somewhat reminiscent of Greek mythology.
You are so right - you seem to have caught the essence with Cat and Mouse and Greek Mythology.
I am thinking of that 'Stop the Pigeon' thing - was it the Wacky Races. I think we should come up with a
'myth' along the lines of Icharus etc that describes this... I am hopeless at mythology but do seem to remember that Icharus flew too close to the sun. These two are their own worst enemies.

The characters they most resemble are the tormented couple in the "Scottish Play."

"What need we fear who knows it when none can call our power to account? ... “A little water clears us of this deed” ...

But in the end, against all expectations, Great Birnam Wood came to Dunsinane, and they were undone!

by Guest 07.04.14 13:22

"Out, damn'd tea spot! out, I say!"

by Judex Venturus 07.04.14 13:30

Châtelaine wrote:"Out, damn'd tea spot! out, I say!"

Absolutely spot on!!!

by russiandoll 07.04.14 13:37

Have regularly remarked on the concept of hubris, from the ancient Greek,

Examples of hubris are often found in fiction, most famously in Paradise Lost, John Milton's depiction of the biblical Lucifer. Victor in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein manifests hubris in his attempt to become a great scientist by creating life through technological means, but eventually regrets this previous desire. Marlowe's play Doctor Faustus portrays the eponymous character as a scholar whose arrogance and pride compel him to sign a deal with the Devil, and retain his haughtiness until his death and damnation, despite the fact that he could easily have repented had he chosen to do so.

The pair did not know when to put on the brakes imo and it is the escalation in their behaviour rather than the de-escalation which might have seen all go quiet and the dust settling on this affair, which will see their eventual undoing imo.

by Guest 07.04.14 13:39

Or this says it all about the case for me - sorry for bad sense of humour, it deserves to be wooshed I suppose but made me laugh - better than crying about the absurdities of this case...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xk1T8kGt0u4