Re: NEW VIDEO: Gaspar Statements the most SHOCKING UK coverup in the Crime of the Century?

by Verdi 11.09.16 22:55

Processos Vol XIII Page 3429

Photographic Recognition File

On 13th June, 2007 at the Portimao DIC, Yvonne Warren Martin appeared before me, José Monteiro, Inspector, in order to proceed with photographic recognition.

When asked, she described the suspect and she was shown photographs of various individuals who made up the McCann couple holiday group.

Upon visualising the photographs, she recognised David Anthony Payne, an individual who appeared in several photographs, as being the person she referred to in her statements and who she supposedly had known on another occasion.

The present document was drawn up and after being translated by the interpreter, will be signed.
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Processos Vol XIII Pages 3430 - 3433 or pages 141-143

YVONNE WARREN MARTIN

Places Worked:

1. Gateshead, Tyne & Wear
2. Southshields, Tyne & Wear
3. Newcastle, Tyne & Wear
4. York, North Yorkshire
5. Hull, Kingston Upon Hull
6. North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear
7. Plymouth, Devon

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ETA:

Just prior to May 3rd, Murat spent 10 days at his sister's home in Exeter, whilst he did some work on a property his mother owns in nearby Sidmouth. His sister's home is less than a mile from the house where Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien live.

It has been speculated that there may be some connection as Tanner and O'Brien are neighbours of James and Charlotte Gorrod, who were also at the resort at the same time as the McCanns and friends.

by Guest 12.09.16 10:46

Well that's clear enough.

by whodunit 12.09.16 17:38

Still doesn't explain the fact that DP is completely without visible scarring of the left eye/cheek area which YM indisputably describes in her statement.

So no, like most everything else about this case, YM's scarred family friend simply is not 'clear enough'.

by Verdi 12.09.16 20:01

whodunit wrote:Still doesn't explain the fact that DP is completely without visible scarring of the left eye/cheek area which YM indisputably describes in her statement.

So no, like most everything else about this case, YM's scarred family friend simply is not 'clear enough'.

Reply posted a few minutes ago deleted - wrong information. Try again..

In Kate McCann's autobiographical novel 'madeleine', she places her first encounter with Robert Murat on the morning of 4th May immediately following her account of Yvonne Martin's intrusion. She doesn't time the two incidents so it might be just coincidence.

It's quite feasible that Yvonne Martin saw both Robert Murat and David Payne on that occasion and confused her description - conversely I might be talking a load of rubbish.

I'm still hoping that Hobs might be able to settle the argument about David Payne's appearance in the flesh yes

.

ETA:

Yvonne Martin says in her witness statement that she met with the McCanns outside their apartment about 09:00 am on the morning of 4th May.

Robert Murat says in his arguido statement that he was breadfasting with his mother, Jennifer Murat at around 09:00 am when they heard the news about Madeleine's disappearance, they immediately went into the garden which is when he encountered Stephen Carpenter. This places Murat at the Ocean Club around the same time as Yvonne Martin.

by whodunit 12.09.16 20:20

Verdi wrote:
whodunit wrote:Still doesn't explain the fact that DP is completely without visible scarring of the left eye/cheek area which YM indisputably describes in her statement.

So no, like most everything else about this case, YM's scarred family friend simply is not 'clear enough'.
Reply posted a few minutes ago deleted - wrong information. Try again..

In Kate McCann's autobiographical novel 'madeleine', she places her first encounter with Robert Murat on the morning of 4th May immediately following her account of Yvonne Martin's intrusion. She doesn't time the two incidents so it might be just coincidence.

It's quite feasible that Yvonne Martin saw both Robert Murat and David Payne on that occasion and confused her description - conversely I might be talking a load of rubbish.

I'm still hoping that Hobs might be able to settle the argument about David Payne's appearance in the flesh .

But isn't it true that Ms. Martin's statement makes it clear that the guy with the scarring is the same guy she recognizes from the UK?

by Verdi 12.09.16 20:25

whodunit wrote:
Verdi wrote:
whodunit wrote:Still doesn't explain the fact that DP is completely without visible scarring of the left eye/cheek area which YM indisputably describes in her statement.

So no, like most everything else about this case, YM's scarred family friend simply is not 'clear enough'.
Reply posted a few minutes ago deleted - wrong information. Try again..

In Kate McCann's autobiographical novel 'madeleine', she places her first encounter with Robert Murat on the morning of 4th May immediately following her account of Yvonne Martin's intrusion. She doesn't time the two incidents so it might be just coincidence.

It's quite feasible that Yvonne Martin saw both Robert Murat and David Payne on that occasion and confused her description - conversely I might be talking a load of rubbish.

I'm still hoping that Hobs might be able to settle the argument about David Payne's appearance in the flesh .

But isn't it true that Ms. Martin's statement makes it clear that the guy with the scarring is the same guy she recognizes from the UK?

YES it's true! Hence my initial post about Ms Martin's peculiar description of David Payne.

by Equity 13.09.16 13:35

The thing I find most confusing regarding the Gaspar statements is why Katerina placed so much emphasis on her worries regarding David Payne whilst excluding GM from similar thoughts.

I'm 100% certain she saw DP making lewd and inappropriate gestures and heard what she says she heard. If however, they were as she believed aimed at Madeleine and GM didn't immediately beat DP to a pulp as would most other fathers, it stands to reason that GM would be even more complicit than DP - but she doesn't appear to even countenance the thought.

I've read other theories suggesting it was an 'adult' holiday and this was a test, misinterpreted by Katerina, aimed at establishing if the Gaspars were up for a more diverse holiday. She even mentioned how the group fell into an awkward silence after the gestures were made.

Most discussions regarding the statements usually concentrate on DP alone rather than GM and DP equally - which should surely be the case if her interpretation of the incident was correct.

by willowthewisp 13.09.16 14:55

Hi Equity,Another astonishing reference that wasn't given the attention it deserved was from DCI Messiah,when questioning DP in the UK,without the Portugal PJ present I'd Bet was,Do you have anything to add to your statement,"This not the right place to discuss,something relevant or pertinent to the inquiry"then the UK Police Officer,states something along the lines that's OK?
Top Flight Police work their DCi Messiah,now revealed to everyone who is interested in reading the Portuguese released documents,that a certain couple thought would not be revealed to the Public's gaze and Clarence?
Well done to the Portugal PJ system,which perhaps has thrown the"Biggest Spanner"into the machinations to deceive,via the MSM,Operation Grange,Crime Watch October 2013 and the earlier reconstructions that the Tapas 9 refused to go back to Portugal to take part in,yet fell over themselves,literally,Jess Wilcox,Gerry,Jane, to me to you,David Edgar moment,with a "Tearful, JT" perhaps realising what they had taken part in?

by Verdi 13.09.16 15:14

Equity wrote:The thing I find most confusing regarding the Gaspar statements is why Katerina placed so much emphasis on her worries regarding David Payne whilst excluding GM from similar thoughts.

I'm 100% certain she saw DP making lewd and inappropriate gestures and heard what she says she heard. If however, they were as she believed aimed at Madeleine and GM didn't immediately beat DP to a pulp as would most other fathers, it stands to reason that GM would be even more complicit than DP - but she doesn't appear to even countenance the thought.

I've read other theories suggesting it was an 'adult' holiday and this was a test, misinterpreted by Katerina, aimed at establishing if the Gaspars were up for a more diverse holiday. She even mentioned how the group fell into an awkward silence after the gestures were made.

Most discussions regarding the statements usually concentrate on DP alone rather than GM and DP equally - which should surely be the case if her interpretation of the incident was correct.

Good thinking! I can only conclude it's because David Payne was allegedly making the gestures. In a manner of speaking, the rest of the group are damned by association but I quite see your point about Gerry McCann, as Ms Gaspar thought Payne was alluding to the McCann daughter.

I always try to bring Gerry McCann to the fore, along with his wife, because I think the emphasis is always on her, I believe they are partners crime and I believe GM has willingly allowed his wife to take the flack and used her to garner sympathy.

Add to that Yvonne Martin's vague recollections, the late night phone call to the UK on 3rd/4th May 2007, the questionaire referred to in the PJ files (which I don't think has ever been published) - and of course references made to his involvement in communal child bathing, although I'm not too sure off the top of my head where that story emanated. David Payne in my opinion is the king-pin that holds the key to the mystery of the untold story of Madeleine McCann. Hav you noticed how he has always kept a distance from the rest of the group when relating their holiday in Portugal - yet he was the organiser?

In short - he sticks out like a sore thumb!

by willowthewisp 13.09.16 16:01

Little Jack Horner stuck in a corner?
We can only hope he is now sucking his Own Thumb only,in anticipation of some"Hobnailed Boots" and an early morning alarm Call,Wakey,Wakey,David time to get up and provide some answers to questions that may now be Relevant or Pertinent events from April 28-05 May 2007?

by Roxyroo 13.09.16 19:40

Verdi wrote:
whodunit wrote:Still doesn't explain the fact that DP is completely without visible scarring of the left eye/cheek area which YM indisputably describes in her statement.

So no, like most everything else about this case, YM's scarred family friend simply is not 'clear enough'.
Reply posted a few minutes ago deleted - wrong information. Try again..

In Kate McCann's autobiographical novel 'madeleine', she places her first encounter with Robert Murat on the morning of 4th May immediately following her account of Yvonne Martin's intrusion. She doesn't time the two incidents so it might be just coincidence.

It's quite feasible that Yvonne Martin saw both Robert Murat and David Payne on that occasion and confused her description - conversely I might be talking a load of rubbish.

I'm still hoping that Hobs might be able to settle the argument about David Payne's appearance in the flesh .

ETA:

Yvonne Martin says in her witness statement that she met with the McCanns outside their apartment about 09:00 am on the morning of 4th May.

Robert Murat says in his arguido statement that he was breadfasting with his mother, Jennifer Murat at around 09:00 am when they heard the news about Madeleine's disappearance, they immediately went into the garden which is when he encountered Stephen Carpenter. This places Murat at the Ocean Club around the same time as Yvonne Martin.

That's a really unfortunate miss spelling Verdi, when I first read it I thought it said " breastfeeding with his mother"

by Verdi 13.09.16 19:47

willowthewisp wrote:Little Jack Horner stuck in a corner?
We can only hope he is now sucking his Own Thumb only,in anticipation of some"Hobnailed Boots" and an early morning alarm Call,Wakey,Wakey,David time to get up and provide some answers to questions that may now be Relevant or Pertinent events from April 28-05 May 2007?

1485    ”Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth?”

Reply    ”Err the, there are a few things but I don’t think this is the right forum for bringing those up.”

1485    ”Okay.

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ETA: David Payne rogatory interview.

by Verdi 13.09.16 19:54

Roxyroo wrote:
That's a really unfortunate miss spelling Verdi, when I first read it I thought it said " breastfeeding with his mother"

Ooops - whata mistaka to make big grin

damn keyboard - we speak a different language. I need a proof reader [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.].

Should of course read 'brea-k-fasting' blushing1

by canada12 14.09.16 0:24

Verdi wrote:
willowthewisp wrote:Little Jack Horner stuck in a corner?
We can only hope he is now sucking his Own Thumb only,in anticipation of some"Hobnailed Boots" and an early morning alarm Call,Wakey,Wakey,David time to get up and provide some answers to questions that may now be Relevant or Pertinent events from April 28-05 May 2007?
1485    ”Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth?”

Reply    ”Err the, there are a few things but I don’t think this is the right forum for bringing those up.”

1485    ”Okay.

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ETA: David Payne rogatory interview.

I've often wondered if what he was referring to was "connections to high places", rather than knowledge or information that would have helped the investigation. If you think you have a connection to someone who will pull rank over the interviewer, that would be exactly the sort of thing you might say to them. ie, a slightly veiled threat...?

by **HiDeHo** 14.09.16 1:02

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by worriedmum 14.09.16 1:29

The thing that mystifies me though, is why Yvonne Martin didn't make her own enquiries when she returned to the UK?

by Guest 14.09.16 8:01

HiDeHo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

That seems quite clear.

by bobbin 14.09.16 10:26

BlueBag wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
That seems quite clear.

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Sorry I don’t know how to move photos over. Perhaps someone can do it for me.
Payne in white T shirt with stripy blue and white T shirt over the top.
Scroll down to Photo, just above the ‘morphing’ photos of Murat and Payne, or for the same photo but a little clearer, scroll straight down to the bottom of the page.
Possible long thin scar, including perhaps another one from under the chin heading out towards the base of the left cheek/ neck scar.
Also square shaped glasses as opposed to fully round ones, if doing a quick description.
Just because Murat also has a scar and definitely square shaped glasses does not mean that Yvonne’ s description is wrong.
Bearing in mind also, that we are working only from photos that are available, some of which the definition is very poor.
I think Yvonne would be well capable of determining what she felt and observed.
If she has been in the business for many years she would be sensitive to what ‘impression’ she was picking up.
The fact that she sent an anonymous letter to police to check Payne for being on the ‘register’ means she felt sufficiently concerned.
I don’t think that either Yvonne’s statements/ identification of Payne, and the Gaspar statements should be invalidated by the fact that Murat has a face scar and wore square glasses too.
Question is, why did the police withhold the Gaspar statements. Why were they surreptitiously enclosed by an unknown sender, to the Portuguese police, so very long after they should have been officially and willingly sent at the first opportunity.
Why does Gerry McCann have an empty ‘file’.
Why did Stuart Prior not progress Payne’s intimation that his ‘statement’ was not the appropriate place to be discussing any other concerns he might have.
Given the known desperate attempts the govt and the powers that be are so obviously trying to keep child abuse and politicians out of the view of the voting public, I think it quite plausible that the Yvonne and Gaspar statements are valid.

by whodunit 14.09.16 14:42

No one is trying to invalidate the Gaspars' statements. Far from it.

I asked this question upthread, but the piece posted by HDH makes it sound like the Gaspars had already made their statements on the morning of the 4th, and YM was basing her suspicions of Payne on these statements. but I don't think this is accurate, therefore, IF Ms. Martin misidentified Murat as Payne, this really does not invalidate the Gaspars but adds another suspect to the 'circle' of 'family friends' who should probably be kept away from children.

I don't see enough of a scar on Payne to warrant the description YM gave of a scar "running from eyebrow to cheek". I see a short 'gouge' for lack of a better word, just on the upper cheekbone. If there are better photos of DP with a more substantial scar visible please share.

by Verdi 14.09.16 14:59

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by Verdi 14.09.16 15:05

whodunit wrote:No one is trying to invalidate the Gaspars' statements. Far from it.

I asked this question upthread, but the piece posted by HDH makes it sound like the Gaspars had already made their statements on the morning of the 4th, and YM was basing her suspicions of Payne on these statements. but I don't think this is accurate, therefore, IF Ms. Martin misidentified Murat as Payne, this really does not invalidate the Gaspars but adds another suspect to the 'circle' of 'family friends' who should probably be kept away from children.

I don't see enough of a scar on Payne to warrant the description YM gave of a scar "running from eyebrow to cheek". I see a short 'gouge' for lack of a better word, just on the upper cheekbone. If there are better photos of DP with a more substantial scar visible please share.

Robert Murat has connections in Devon, he was staying there prior to his trip to PdL on 1st May 2007. Yvonne Martin worked in Devon for a while. According to the PJ investigation, Murat had an interest in matters of a sexual nature. An anonymous person reported some very very damning information about Murat, allegations of a very unsavoury nature.

It's on file.

by sandancer 14.09.16 20:29

Worried mum said "why didn't Yvonne Martin make her own enquiries " . Well maybe she did , and like others was"shut down " ?

She spent most of her time in the North East , do any of the group have connections to that area ? Does Payne or Murat have any links to the North East ?

by bobbin 14.09.16 21:03

Verdi wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] ?

Thank you Verdi, this is the photo.

If you use a good strong eye glass, there seems to be a very fine scar line from at least left upper cheek down to left neck near collar, and also a fine line from under the middle of the chin towards the lower end of the cheek/collar scar.

by whatsupdoc 05.03.17 9:27

I watched HiDeHo's video on Dispatches Searching for Madeleine (October 2007) yesterday which has been reposted by "Daily News" on 4th Dec 2016 . I just found it rather strange that eliminating the parents was the last thing they mentioned even though ex C.S. Stevenson said 70% of cases involved the family.
However, I started to read many of the comments which were all recent. Try and avoid Vlodec's bad language. Michael Walker got many points wrong . One poster suggested Michael Walker could be Michael Wright. The idea did cross my mind.
Now for the crunch. We really need proof of the CATS episode. Going down a long way to the comments of "carol Jamieson and KSC 1708", these two people are saying similar comments re a conviction of G McCann in 2002 , 2006 and being on the the Sex Offender's Register. KSC1708 mentions a connection with Operation Ore.
It's not new but just two more people with their views which closely agree with another person who posted similar information on Twitter quite some time ago. There are a lot of “Read more” so I opened as many as I could see and saved the lot before it disappears.

I found having a CATS file which was empty rather odd as I don't think everyone in the country has an empty CATS file just in case it may be needed.

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eta I did notice around the time of the wayback episode that the ceop site was freshened up and security improved with the removal of id=1 in the HTML header which was an easy hack using SQL injection to get admin priviledges on the site. Bit of a panic, was there?

NEW VIDEO: Gaspar Statements the most SHOCKING UK coverup in the Crime of the Century?