The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

tnb wrote:So you wrote all that to agree with me there was no "dry run"?

Verdi wrote:

MayMuse wrote:After you Verdi, you take an hour and I will; which time would you like?

I am not trying to make an issue out of something I don't believe ever happened.
 
I am not of the same ilk as HiDeHo - she far exceeds my level of ability, I would be of no assistance.

I am a rubbish researcher - too easily distracted to stick meticulously to any one subject.

I do not have the time nor the patience to try and fathom what I consider to be a fabricated story-line.

By the way, my post was not directed at you personally.

skyrocket wrote:@MayMuse - good question. Can't be easy for any of them - remembering what they should and shouldn't be saying; what they have and haven't said in past statements. That's the problem with telling porky pies.

Stephen Carpenter was handed an envelope with a letter in it which he was asked to read before saying anything in his April 2008 interview. All he says after reading it is, "yes, that's fine."

Also, Paul Gordon, former 5A occupant intimates in his April 2008 statement that contact from the Mc camp (specifically Brian Kennedy and the Mcs themselves) had made it difficult for him to perhaps say what he wanted, he says, "There are certain times when I feel like a pawn in chess."

Re: the beds in 'Madeleine's" bedroom, if the Paynes were in 5A, I think Dianne could have been using the bed by the window with Lily in the single cot in the same room (Scarlet being in the second cot in the second bedroom, as described by Maria the cleaner). This could be the reason the cot locations is such a touchy subject for both the Mcs.

kaz wrote:

skyrocket wrote:@MayMuse - good question. Can't be easy for any of them - remembering what they should and shouldn't be saying; what they have and haven't said in past statements. That's the problem with telling porky pies.

Stephen Carpenter was handed an envelope with a letter in it which he was asked to read before saying anything in his April 2008 interview. All he says after reading it is, "yes, that's fine."

Also, Paul Gordon, former 5A occupant intimates in his April 2008 statement that contact from the Mc camp (specifically Brian Kennedy and the Mcs themselves) had made it difficult for him to perhaps say what he wanted, he says, "There are certain times when I feel like a pawn in chess."

Re: the beds in 'Madeleine's" bedroom, if the Paynes were in 5A, I think Dianne could have been using the bed by the window with Lily in the single cot in the same room (Scarlet being in the second cot in the second bedroom, as described by Maria the cleaner). This could be the reason the cot locations is such a touchy subject for both the Mcs.

Good point.
It would certainly have made sense for the McCanns  to offer to exchange their apartment with the extra bed to accommodate Mrs Webster  and would certainly then answer the mystery of the lack of Madeleine's DNA in 5A. But then there is still the problem of the cadaver odour.

MayMuse wrote:

Really? Then why suggest it to others if you cannot assist?

Verdi wrote:

MayMuse wrote:

Really? Then why suggest it to others if you cannot assist?

I made my reasoning quite clear in my original post, I have nothing further to add.

For goodness sake MayMuse, this is not supposed to be a 'them and us' scenario - a challenge shouldn't be taken as a personal attack.  I admit to being a trifle brusque at times, I make no apology for that, if you object to my persona I'm easy enough to ignore.

On with the show..

skyrocket wrote:@Kaz

There was no need for the Mcs and Paynes to swap for the beds. 

Both 5A and 5H were T2 apartments i.e. 2 bedrooms. Each with 2 sets of twin beds. 5H had an extra bed - from Martin Grime's searches, the extra bed in 5H seems to be an extra single bed not a sofa bed. 

Now, the interesting point is that all children over the age of 2 years are automatically allocated a BED by MarkWarner. Therefore, the Mcs would have been given 5 beds and the Paynes 4, with an automatic cot for Scarlet.

On the guest list it can clearly be seen that the 'extra bed' is automatically allocated against the Mcs booking, not the Paynes, where 'cot x 1' is allocated (bottom of page 1), in the same manner as for Ellie and Grace. 

There is a note requesting 3 further cots for Sean, Amelie and Lily (remember they have been given beds). So 2 cots were put in both 5A and 5H - which doesn't help differentiate.

On this guest list NO APARTMENT NUMBERS are given. 

Dianne Webster says that she slept on the spare bed in the lounge area and all along I have been questioning why she would do this when there were 2 empty single beds in the room Lily was using, in a cot on her own. Would any grandmother do this i.e. sleep in a communal area rather than in with their granddaughter? The Payne's could be comfortably housed in 5A, without the use of a spare bed at all. Was the idea of Dianne using the spare bed only introduced to re-inforce the story that the Paynes were in 5H? 

So to be clear, the Mcs would be automatically booked into a T2 with an extra bed because all 5 of the party were over the age of 2 years. 5H was a T2 with an extra bed. The Paynes would automatically be booked into a T2 with no extra bed because 4 of the party were over 2 years (incl Dianne), and Scarlet was allocated an extra cot. 5A was a T2 with no extra bed.

skyrocket wrote:@Kaz

There was no need for the Mcs and Paynes to swap for the beds. 

Both 5A and 5H were T2 apartments i.e. 2 bedrooms. Each with 2 sets of twin beds. 5H had an extra bed - from Martin Grime's searches, the extra bed in 5H seems to be an extra single bed not a sofa bed. 

Now, the interesting point is that all children over the age of 2 years are automatically allocated a BED by MarkWarner. Therefore, the Mcs would have been given 5 beds and the Paynes 4, with an automatic cot for Scarlet.

On the guest list it can clearly be seen that the 'extra bed' is automatically allocated against the Mcs booking, not the Paynes, where 'cot x 1' is allocated (bottom of page 1), in the same manner as for Ellie and Grace. 

There is a note requesting 3 further cots for Sean, Amelie and Lily (remember they have been given beds). So 2 cots were put in both 5A and 5H - which doesn't help differentiate.

On this guest list NO APARTMENT NUMBERS are given. 

Dianne Webster says that she slept on the spare bed in the lounge area and all along I have been questioning why she would do this when there were 2 empty single beds in the room Lily was using, in a cot on her own. Would any grandmother do this i.e. sleep in a communal area rather than in with their granddaughter? The Payne's could be comfortably housed in 5A, without the use of a spare bed at all. Was the idea of Dianne using the spare bed only introduced to re-inforce the story that the Paynes were in 5H? 

So to be clear, the Mcs would be automatically booked into a T2 with an extra bed because all 5 of the party were over the age of 2 years. 5H was a T2 with an extra bed. The Paynes would automatically be booked into a T2 with no extra bed because 4 of the party were over 2 years (incl Dianne), and Scarlet was allocated an extra cot. 5A was a T2 with no extra bed.

MayMuse wrote: I thought the twins were under 2 years of age? 

Verdi wrote:

MayMuse wrote: I thought the twins were under 2 years of age? 

The twins were 11 months old when they took the holiday to Portugal.

sharonl wrote:Can we please dispense with the arguments here and keep this thread on topic.  

Now, just a suggestion but if it is true that all the children were being cared for I one apartment and someone was missing from dinner each night:

Was the same apartment used each night?
Did everyone have an early night on Saturday or just the McCanns?
Were the McCanns the first to babysit on that Saturday night?
Did both the McCanns stay in that night?
Did the arrangement change after ,Sunday?

Verdi wrote:

MayMuse wrote: I thought the twins were under 2 years of age? 

The twins were 11 months old when they took the holiday to Portugal.

kaz wrote:

Verdi wrote:

MayMuse wrote: I thought the twins were under 2 years of age? 

The twins were 11 months old when they took the holiday to Portugal.

The twins were born at the beginning of 2005. They WERE two years old.

colinthecucumber wrote:

Verdi wrote:

MayMuse wrote: I thought the twins were under 2 years of age? 

The twins were 11 months old when they took the holiday to Portugal.

I think they were 2 years and 3 months.

Verdi wrote:

sharonl wrote:Can we please dispense with the arguments here and keep this thread on topic.  

Now, just a suggestion but if it is true that all the children were being cared for I one apartment and someone was missing from dinner each night:

Was the same apartment used each night?
Did everyone have an early night on Saturday or just the McCanns?
Were the McCanns the first to babysit on that Saturday night?
Did both the McCanns stay in that night?
Did the arrangement change after ,Sunday?

I've always thought that to be a distinct possibility - far more likely than all the children being left alone in their respective apartments, with or without unlocked doors.  There is also a possibility that the children were being cared for by one or more of the nannies off the books so to speak.

sharonl wrote:

Verdi wrote:

sharonl wrote:Can we please dispense with the arguments here and keep this thread on topic.  

Now, just a suggestion but if it is true that all the children were being cared for I one apartment and someone was missing from dinner each night:

Was the same apartment used each night?
Did everyone have an early night on Saturday or just the McCanns?
Were the McCanns the first to babysit on that Saturday night?
Did both the McCanns stay in that night?
Did the arrangement change after ,Sunday?

I've always thought that to be a distinct possibility - far more likely than all the children being left alone in their respective apartments, with or without unlocked doors.  There is also a possibility that the children were being cared for by one or more of the nannies off the books so to speak.

Good point and even more likely on the. evening of the alleged abduction.  Didn't Cat Baker claim that she was asleep in her apartment whilst her colleagues were out clubbing that night?

Nina wrote:Regarding the Paynes maybe being in apartment 5Aandnot 5H.These photographs are the greyscale ones and not easy to see but there are some of DP on the balcony with the children and it does look higher up than the balcony of 5A would be, so I think they were in 5H

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm