Re: Gerry's fake passport photo

by aiyoyo 17.10.14 10:55

plebgate wrote:
What is the point of it, it clearly looks like Mr. to me and as Aiyoyo said why would he give a false passport to cops? If the cops thought it was fake, wouldn't they have done something about it by now?

Forgery is a serious crime, especially if it involves an official travel document issued by Her Majesty Authority. One would not do it unless it is absolutely necessary and only if it serves a purpose.

To even entertain that - that it might be a fake/a forgery - you would have to ask or look at the possible advantageous to Gerry for him to have done that? Why, what for, and this and that.

And if you can't even arrive at one possible reasonable plausible point on why he would resort to knowingly commit an offence of forgery, further compounding the serious offence by giving it to the very Investigators investigating his missing daughter. That's unthinkable beyond words.

To even suggest cunning self-serving Gerry (of all people) would be so stupid to do such a stupid thing that won't serve his purpose whatsoever, except to knowingly put himself in trouble with the law is simply ludicrous beyond words.

If people wish to discuss the peculiarities of photos there is already an existing thread on photos in general.

by nglfi 17.10.14 12:15

I think perhaps the difference between the photo and Gerry as we know him now, is that this is back when he was young and happy. He isn't sneering, duping delight or trying to mask any internal fear or disquiet. It is a broad, open mouthed smile in my opinion, genuinely happy. Although there are several pictures very soon after Madeleine disappeared of the pair laughing and joking, Gerry has already adopted that superior sneer. Imo he looks genuinely different in demeanour in the passport photo but not in his basic facial appearance.

by nglfi 17.10.14 12:17

Ps and as Deecoy said, the hologram is distorting his face slightly and making his chin appear more rounded, which in turn slightly alters the appearance of his mouth

by Snifferdog 17.10.14 12:40

nglfi wrote:I think perhaps the difference between the photo and Gerry as we know him now, is that this is back when he was young and happy. He isn't sneering, duping delight or trying to mask any internal fear or disquiet. It is a broad, open mouthed smile in my opinion, genuinely happy. Although there are several pictures very soon after Madeleine disappeared of the pair laughing and joking, Gerry has already adopted that superior sneer. Imo he looks genuinely different in demeanour in the passport photo but not in his basic facial appearance.

An interesting hypothesis nglfi, for me, a persons spirit is visible in their face, especially as they get older, and the personality becomes defined by the muscles most often used, forming the persons habitual expression, becoming more permanent with time.

by nglfi 17.10.14 17:33

Snifferdog wrote:
nglfi wrote:I think perhaps the difference between the photo and Gerry as we know him now, is that this is back when he was young and happy. He isn't sneering, duping delight or trying to mask any internal fear or disquiet. It is a broad, open mouthed smile in my opinion, genuinely happy. Although there are several pictures very soon after Madeleine disappeared of the pair laughing and joking, Gerry has already adopted that superior sneer. Imo he looks genuinely different in demeanour in the passport photo but not in his basic facial appearance.

An interesting hypothesis nglfi, for me, a persons spirit is visible in their face, especially as they get older, and the personality becomes defined by the muscles most often used, forming the persons habitual expression, becoming more permanent with time.

I completely agree, I think you can really tell what the McCanns are up to by their expressions. Of course, pros would say their faces are just careworn from what they have 'been through'

by missbeetle 17.10.14 20:23

I can't seem to find the passport pictures or details of the Tapas Seven characters in the Portuguese police files.

I might not be looking in the right place, though.

Any ideas?

Another question is would Gerry be eligible for an Irish passport, given his Donegal ancestry?

by Rufus T 17.10.14 20:42

Yes, Gerry would be eligible for an Irish passport, as his father was born in Ireland.

by missbeetle 18.10.14 0:34

aiyoyo wrote:
plebgate wrote:
What is the point of it, it clearly looks like Mr. to me and as Aiyoyo said why would he give a false passport to cops? If the cops thought it was fake, wouldn't they have done something about it by now?

Forgery is a serious crime, especially if it involves an official travel document issued by Her Majesty Authority. One would not do it unless it is absolutely necessary and only if it serves a purpose.

To even entertain that - that it might be a fake/a forgery - you would have to ask or look at the possible advantageous to Gerry for him to have done that? Why, what for, and this and that.

And if you can't even arrive at one possible reasonable plausible point on why he would resort to knowingly commit an offence of forgery, further compounding the serious offence by giving it to the very Investigators investigating his missing daughter. That's unthinkable beyond words.

To even suggest cunning self-serving Gerry (of all people) would be so stupid to do such a stupid thing that won't serve his purpose whatsoever, except to knowingly put himself in trouble with the law is simply ludicrous beyond words.

If people wish to discuss the peculiarities of photos there is already an existing thread on photos in general.

With respect, Aiyoyo, I don't think Gerry laying a false paper trail - or having it laid for him - is all that ludicrous an idea.

It is my belief that the disappearance of Madeleine was a planned event with many players...

...faked passports are not unknown in the world of spies, gangsters and jet-setting paedophiles - Roderick Robinson, for example.

It could be that the 'clean-up' operation in Praia da Luz involved slightly altered identities and passports -

- before Madeleine could be announced to be missing.

Who could've arranged such things?

A helpful local?

Gerry's got some powerful interests behind his story...

...so I myself would not rule it out.

by Okeydokey 18.10.14 2:23

There can be no denying the passport photos are jaw-droppingly weird.

But I think what we see there are two individuals who think the normal rules don't apply to them. That is a very important context.

by **tigger** 18.10.14 7:12

Okeydokey wrote:
There can be no denying the passport photos are jaw-droppingly weird.

But I think what we see there are two individuals who think the normal rules don't apply to them. That is a very important context.

That's the thing: The background and mind-set of the main 'players'.

They can't move outside their own heads which is why we end up with documents such as KH1 and with GM saying a High Court Judge is corrupt because he does not adhere to the Leveson recommendations.

Btw where is that transcript? Something to read when one needs cheering up.. laughat

by nglfi 18.10.14 9:05

But what would be the purpose of having a fake passport with an image of someone that looks a lot like Gerry and has Gerry's genuine details? Normally a fake passport would have an alternative identity but we know this to be Gerry's correct identity. So why would he have a picture of someone who looks a lot like him and where would he find them? I think the passport is genuine and the picture is of Gerry.

by aiyoyo 18.10.14 9:21

missbeetle wrote:

With respect, Aiyoyo, I don't think Gerry laying a false paper trail - or having it laid for him - is all that ludicrous an idea. In what context?

It is my belief that the disappearance of Madeleine was a planned event with many players...

...faked passports are not unknown in the world of spies, gangsters and jet-setting paedophiles - Roderick Robinson, for example.different context

It could be that the 'clean-up' operation in Praia da Luz involved slightly altered identities and passports -Really ? for what purpose?

- before Madeleine could be announced to be missing. a father handing in an altered passport to Police in charge of his missing daughter won't raise suspicion ? Sure, if you say so.

Who could've arranged such things?

A helpful local? Ur hmm,,, don't think so. One will need to be very skilled at forgery and equipped with special tool to do that. Do I believe a helpful local would help him do that especially in that circumstances ? Hell NO!

Gerry's got some powerful interests behind his story...

...so I myself would not rule it out. Really? You seriously think Gerry would do that as if he needs a hole in his head, for no apparent reason? and the forgery went unnoticed by PJ? Defeating his ~~(no apparent)~~ purpose ?

by plebgate 18.10.14 9:28

nglfi wrote:But what would be the purpose of having a fake passport with an image of someone that looks a lot like Gerry and has Gerry's genuine details? Normally a fake passport would have an alternative identity but we know this to be Gerry's correct identity. So why would he have a picture of someone who looks a lot like him and where would he find them? I think the passport is genuine and the picture is of Gerry.

As Aiyoyo said why start a new thread, thoughts could have been tacked on to The Last photo thread which is very much more interesting (to me at least) since PeterM posted his latest news on it.

If this thread pushes the Last Photo thread off the front page I will give it a bump.

by aiyoyo 18.10.14 9:39

plebgate wrote:
nglfi wrote:But what would be the purpose of having a fake passport with an image of someone that looks a lot like Gerry and has Gerry's genuine details? Normally a fake passport would have an alternative identity but we know this to be Gerry's correct identity. So why would he have a picture of someone who looks a lot like him and where would he find them? I think the passport is genuine and the picture is of Gerry.

Exactement.

As Aiyoyo said why start a new thread, thoughts could have been tacked on to The Last photo thread which is very much more interesting (to me at least) since PeterM posted his latest news on it.

This topic should not be given oxygen for obvious reason (makes us look like a bunch of loons, no offence). And, most certainly not appropriate to tag to last photo thread, also for obvious reason - stay on topic and all comes to mind.

Personally,I'm surprised this thread has grown arms and legs and doesn't look to abate.
There is a thread covering photos, including the passport photos and its nitty gritty was already under discussion.

If this thread pushes the Last Photo thread off the front page I will give it a bump.

by juliet 18.10.14 9:51

The Potuguese police think the McCanns brought a bundle of "Madeleine is missing" posters with them to PdL. It is only the famous Amy Tierney who in 2008 claimed she had printed the pictures off ( on a printer by then lost in France). Most if not all of the holiday pictures featuring Madeleine are faked. The last photo is a lie. The creche records, it is strongly suggested, were a lie. For some reason McCann's passport picture is also a lie. BTW -Aiyoyo's previous many unpleasant posts about this thread have been removed along with my posts complaining about her personal attacks. Is this revisionism usual?

by Lance De Boils 18.10.14 10:48

I remember this being discussed years ago. I also remember looking into passport photo rules and seeing that they had become far stricter some time after this passport was issued.

I remember concluding that nothing useful could be gleaned from K&G's passport pictures. Just imo.

by LombardySkeptik 18.10.14 11:18

Lance De Boils wrote:I remember this being discussed years ago. I also remember looking into passport photo rules and seeing that they had become far stricter some time after this passport was issued.

I remember concluding that nothing useful could be gleaned from K&G's passport pictures. Just imo.

I agree

While it is always worth scrutinising all of the McCann legend, this thesis is rather more out there than most

Remember false passports are usually to mask identity in traveling etc

Are we to imagine that the point of this 'forged passport' thesis is that Gerry McCann is not Gerry McCann....?

by Snifferdog 18.10.14 11:30

There would need to be a good reason for Gerry to assume a false ID. If we cannot find one, there would be no point in looking into it further.
If it were true, it would open a minefield, and require that we change a lot of our thoughts and perceptions about this case.

by juliet 18.10.14 20:05

All I am sure of is that there is a lot more to this case than "A tragic holiday accident....covered up because they were middle class doctors who were a bit too fond of a drink." Nothing would surprise me about the McCanns. Every photo of Madeleine is questionable so not so odd that Gerry's passport photo doesn't add up. Even the left eye looks drawn on.

by nglfi 18.10.14 20:20

But it makes no logical sense for him to do that. Why would Gerry draw up a fake passport picture with a picture of someone who looks almost exactly like him, what would be the purpose? Unless we are saying the man currently in the media is not Gerry McCann and is someone entirely different who has assumed his identity? But in that case it makes no sense for the photo itself to be altered, it would just be a clear shot of the man we currently know as Gerry McCann, with no alterations. I'm sorry but I can't see any logic behind it. I'm not saying they're not dodgy and that there's no chance there was any pre planning in this, but I can't see any reason or possibility that the man we know as Gerry McCann has assumed an identity. Think of all of his family and all the people that knew him before the event, someone would speak up.

by juliet 18.10.14 20:34

Perhaps as someone said he thought someone had facial recognition memory of him looking into his webcam? Oh no, ludicrous. But all the fake photos of Madeleine - in England and Ireland as well as PdL - are baffling too.

by missbeetle 18.10.14 20:58

There is some discussion at the beginning of the Car Hire thread about whether Gerry held more than one passport.

As to why a doctored passport might need to have been arranged - ideas off the top of my head :

- original one stolen in questionable circumstances

- to hide stamps in passport from odd or suspicious travel eg. previous travel to Portugal

- photograph altered enough to outwit facial recognition technology

- something to do with Witness Protection or Operation Mincemeat

I've had a look at the passport photographs of Gerry and Kate again :

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(snipped from mccannpjfiles, with thanks)

To me, these pictures look like the sort of portrait pictures used for employment profiles. 'Our team' sort of thing.

Possibly easier to get hold of at short notice than old passport photographs?

All just my ideas and opinions.

by j.rob 18.10.14 21:51

Good points, missbe!

There are many reasons why people might have more than one passport. Or a dodgy passport. Or even a fake passport.

Why not? Of course there are.

I have also never seen someone sideways on in a passport photo, as Kate is.

I doubt either of those photos are their passport photos, imo.

Why would they be?

Everything that has sprung from their neck of the woods is a falsehood or lie, so why would this be any different?

IMO.

by j.rob 18.10.14 22:03

Think of all of his family and all the people that knew him before the event, someone would speak up.

-----

Yes, isn't it remarkable how no-one speaks up about what the Mc family life was really like? Not one single person.

Apart from the Gaspers, maybe?

I don't believe the purple prose accounts given by a few (who have been paid off?) in the rogatories. They don't ring true to me.

by Guest 18.10.14 22:11

j.rob wrote:Good points, missbe!

There are many reasons why people might have more than one passport. Or a dodgy passport. Or even a fake passport.

Why not? Of course there are.

I have also never seen someone sideways on in a passport photo, as Kate is.

I doubt either of those photos are their passport photos, imo.

Why would they be?

Everything that has sprung from their neck of the woods is a falsehood or lie, so why would this be any different?

IMO.

Haven't a clue why but I keep all my expired passports. Every one looks like a prime suspect in a police ID parade, Britain's most wanted misery! I don't remember ever having the option of smiling to improve my otherwise dodgy photographic image.