Re: YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place

by Liz Eagles 18.09.18 20:29

There is always confusion as to what is allowed/disallowed/expected and hoped for in law.

Madeleine McCann, a British citizen, deserves to have her disappearance investigated without the lily-livered excuses of various constabularies and the completely outrageous PR and subsequent media rot embraced and harboured to the extreme by her own parents.

Why the Tapas crew have not been interviewed in UK is disgraceful. Instead, there is a circus surrounding the probable death of a three year old girl. If that doesn't make one weep nothing will.

by willowthewisp 19.09.18 13:53

Yorkshirgel wrote:Not wishing to look dim but what is a tag event? I do not understand how all these people are free to carry on their normal lives without a proper investigation ever having been done by the British police, nor do I understand why our Government got involved at all.

Tag event like wrestling Two man team,where one man continues to replace until a knock out declared.
Two Teams of Two=Four wrestlers.

by willowthewisp 19.09.18 14:00

aquila wrote:There is always confusion as to what is allowed/disallowed/expected and hoped for in law.

Madeleine McCann, a British citizen, deserves to have her disappearance investigated without the lily-livered excuses of various constabularies and the completely outrageous PR and subsequent media rot embraced and harboured to the extreme by her own parents.

Why the Tapas crew have not been interviewed in UK is disgraceful. Instead, there is a circus surrounding the probable death of a three year old girl. If that doesn't make one weep nothing will.

Hi aquila,very well put.

Just shows what morons Human beings become when entering into Politics/Powerful positions or is it an inbuilt trait that they would behave that way in natural progression in life?

by Yorkshirgel 19.09.18 17:17

When politicians are not plotting to cause trouble for each other, they are busy protecting their own way of life, I was always told 'Never trust a politician' and as far as I can see their aim in life is to reach the top and they do not care who they trample over to get there. Good advice. This case stinks of interference from politicians. Why would that be in a case of a missing child? I think that is the question we should be asking. Who is it they are protecting? Why does our PM keep giving the nod to releasing more money to this case when there are other children who might be saved/found? It seems all the Mcs have to do is hold out their begging bowl and it will be filled. What is it they know that we do not?

by willowthewisp 19.09.18 18:32

Yorkshirgel wrote:When politicians are not plotting to cause trouble for each other, they are busy protecting their own way of life, I was always told 'Never trust a politician' and as far as I can see their aim in life is to reach the top and they do not care who they trample over to get there. Good advice. This case stinks of interference from politicians. Why would that be in a case of a missing child? I think that is the question we should be asking. Who is it they are protecting? Why does our PM keep giving the nod to releasing more money to this case when there are other children who might be saved/found? It seems all the Mcs have to do is hold out their begging bowl and it will be filled. What is it they know that we do not?

As I have stated before,the only thing generating a larger Cover Up is "Child Abuse/Paedophilia,Parliament,Echelons in Society"7 Decades Post War,Film, Oranges & Sunshine,unbelievable,but True?
UK Care Homes,Ireland,Wales,Islington,Lambeth,Richmond,London?

Do the McCann's have an inside knowledge being Doctors,they have an associate from CEOP who ventured into Thailand without permission seeking to gain an advantage!
Who gave Gerry the late night reading material to study picked up from in UK obtainable by a closed source only?
Not to mention the Gasper statements and proclivities to Bathing other person's children?

No Smoke without fire,just the Smoke appears first!

by Sundance 20.09.18 10:24

willowthewisp wrote:

As I have stated before,the only thing generating a larger Cover Up is "Child Abuse/Paedophilia,Parliament,Echelons in Society"7 Decades Post War,Film, Oranges & Sunshine,unbelievable,but True?
UK Care Homes,Ireland,Wales,Islington,Lambeth,Richmond,London?

Do the McCann's have an inside knowledge being Doctors,they have an associate from CEOP who ventured into Thailand without permission seeking to gain an advantage!
Who gave Gerry the late night reading material to study picked up from in UK obtainable by a closed source only?
Not to mention the Gasper statements and proclivities to Bathing other person's children?

No Smoke without fire,just the Smoke appears first!

How does all of this fit the narrative? There's an extensive paedophile ring and a little girl had an accident due to parental neglect?

by Guest 16.06.20 21:10

Enid O'Dowd wrote:The discrepancy that stands out for me is no.11.

Kate says she was wearing just a towel having got out of the shower. Dr Payne does not recall the towel. Now it is believable that a man might not recall the clothes a woman was wearing if there was nothing inappropriate about them but not to remember Kate in her towel....?

Kate's story seems consistent - he stayed on the balcony and the visit was only about 30 secs as you would expect given her state of undress.

Dr Payne's version is so different that you wonder if the visit happened.

Richard Hall covers this very well in his film.

Needless to say this visit which is very significant in the scheme of things is not examined in the Summers and Swan book.

by Guest 16.06.20 21:31

I'm sure most men would notice whether a woman had a towel wrapped around her or was wearing clothes and David Payne's bumbling statement when asked what the children were dressed in that evening led him to say that he thought they were all wearing white but wouldn't Madeleine have been wearing her Eyore pj's, which are definitely not white if she'd been there? Also he referred in what I would consider to be reflective language about them looking peaceful, well cared for to, IMO reinforce what a great mother Kate was but it struck me that this kind of reflective language can also be used to fondly describe someone deceased. I made these observations from the Richard Hall documentary in connection with the visit to Kate by David Payne.

by cookiemuncher 16.06.20 21:50

miffy8 wrote:I'm sure most men would notice whether a woman had a towel wrapped around her or was wearing clothes and David Payne's bumbling statement when asked what the children were dressed in that evening led him to say that he thought they were all wearing white but wouldn't Madeleine have been wearing her Eyore pj's, which are definitely not white if she'd been there? Also he referred in what I would consider to be reflective language about them looking peaceful, well cared for to, IMO reinforce what a great mother Kate was but it struck me that this kind of reflective language can also be used to fondly describe someone deceased. I made these observations from the Richard Hall documentary in connection with the visit to Kate by David Payne.

I think David Payne was referring to the fact that the 3 children were dressed in white dressing gowns??

Not a mention of those dressing gowns has been made since, where were they for forensics? Where was the one worn by Madeleine?

But if he didn't go into the apartment and stood at the patio doors with Kate McCann standing in front of him with a towel draped around her how would he see the children sitting like angels in their white dressing gowns?

by **sharonl** 16.06.20 23:07

miffy8 wrote:David Payne's bumbling statement when asked what the children were dressed in that evening led him to say that he thought they were all wearing white but wouldn't Madeleine have been wearing her Eyore pj's, which are definitely not white if she'd been there?

Wouldn't Amelie also have been wearing Eyore pjs? The girls had similar PJ's didn't they?

As for Sean, would a two year old boy really be dressed in white? or would he be in a darker colour?

by Guest 17.06.20 7:02

I'm sure OG has resolved all this.

They must have.

Right?

by Smokeandmirrors 25.06.20 20:07

I don't believe David Payne visited, I think it's a clearly shoddy attempt at a retro-fit to place Madeleine alive.
David Payne has a daughter or two and the reference to white nightwear might be because his own child has white nightwear and it popped into his mind when he stuttered and stammered his way through the car crash of an interview.

Someone mentioned dressing gowns but I don't think you'd bother for a week's holiday when you had all the other small-child paraphernalia to deal with.

There are so many contradictions that I don't think it possible to have occurred or the "margin of error " would be far smaller imo.

I think David and Gerry share a nasty little secret, as per the Gaspars and this is why imo David flustered his way very badly, through a fairy tale account with it's 30 + ers and ums and over 20 you-knows.

Why he wasn't arguidoed I'll never know.

by Chessmaster 28.07.22 23:49

He didn’t go to the apartment 100 percent I have two main reasons for this.

1. When questioned in his witness statement in regards to what Kate was wearing. He replied he couldn’t remember let’s be real I’m sure you wouldn’t forget that someone only had a towel on so there’s his first fail.
2. He states that they were all sat there like angels in white looking clean. We’ll that can’t of occurred neither because the cadaver dog indicated to smell of dead body on one of Madelines tops which was not white far from it. So what did Madeline do in the night just though ok I’d have an outfit change no.
3. Kate says he was there 30 seconds he was saying a lot longer best thing to do here guys and girls is do what they did with phone records wooosh clunk focus on the statements and what you can prove and actually make have credibility and ignore all newspaper and media input as they don’t care either way they just want a story.

by **Tony Bennett** 01.08.22 22:24

sharonl wrote:
miffy8 wrote:David Payne's bumbling statement when asked what the children were dressed in that evening led him to say that he thought they were all wearing white but wouldn't Madeleine have been wearing her Eyore pj's, which are definitely not white if she'd been there?

Wouldn't Amelie also have been wearing Eyore pjs? The girls had similar PJ's didn't they?

As for Sean, would a two year old boy really be dressed in white? or would he be in a darker colour?

Actually the PJ did very well here.

Instead of taking the claims of David Payne and Kate McCann about this fake visit at face value, they started asking some really simple questions, like:

How long were you there for?
Why did you go?
What did you see when you got there? etc.

Because they both told stone cold lies about this visit, they had to make it all up!

They contradicted each other on every point! I made it 20 contradictions in all.

Kate then tried to harmonise these two flatly contradictory versions of that non-visit in her novel, 'madeleine'.

What a crying shame the PJ under-performed when it came to another fake event: the Thursday 'high tea'.

For 15 whole years the PJ and Goncalo Amaral have failed to admit that this 'high tea' with Madeleine never happened.

A tragedy.

by crusader 02.08.22 8:32

Tony Bennett wrote
What a crying shame the PJ under-performed when it came to another fake event: the Thursday 'high tea'.

For 15 whole years the PJ and Goncalo Amaral have failed to admit that this 'high tea' with Madeleine never happened.

We don't know if the other parents of the children who attended the tea have made statements there is nothing in the PJ files about them.

Why would G Amaral make such a vital mistake, it is basic police work finding out when the child was last seen.

There is a reason why G Amaral has never said the high tea didn't happened and that's because he believes it did.

by **Jill Havern** 02.08.22 9:47

crusader wrote:
There is a reason why G Amaral has never said the high tea didn't happened and that's because he believes it did.

Believed it did....past tense.
- after working with Peter, he is considering the idea of an earlier death - so where will that leave his belief of the high tea?

by crusader 02.08.22 13:39

I didn't know he was considering the earlier death idea, has Peter written about it? With the evidence G Amaral already has that we don't know about, and Peter's input, I hope something comes of it.

If it can be proven Madeleine was dead before the high tea on Wednesday, that would be fantastic and game over for the McCann's.

by **Jill Havern** 02.08.22 13:50

No, Peter hasn't written about it.

Maybe there will be another GA book if he changes his mind, who knows?

by Verdi 02.08.22 14:07

Gonçalo Amaral's second book hinted at re-consideration on the timeline subject..

Planned kidnapping? Kidnapping motivated by sexual gratification? Voluntary disappearance? Responsibilities of parents or others with a duty of care for the child? Accidental death (with or without ingestion of sleeping medication)? Death in the hours or days prior to the missing person alert? It is not known.

But I think this needs to be considered in context, rather than a stand alone comment.

Unfortunately it looks like there are no plans for the book to be published in English, at least I've not seen any mention of it.

Maybe the unofficial translation circulating the internet should be given further consideration, it's better than nothing surely.

by **Tony Bennett** 02.08.22 22:29

Well, Petermac tried very very hard to persuade Goncalo Amaral to take a serious look at the evidence that the high tea didn't happen, that the Last Photo was taken Sunday and therefore faked, that the evidence that Madeleine was alive after Sunday lacked credible, independent evidence and so on.

In my opinion he failed Madeleine by not taking this evidence seriously.

A big opportunity missed, and a crying shame.

by **sharonl** 02.08.22 23:04

crusader wrote:I didn't know he was considering the earlier death idea, has Peter written about it? With the evidence G Amaral already has that we don't know about, and Peter's input, I hope something comes of it.

If it can be proven Madeleine was dead before the high tea on Wednesday, that would be fantastic and game over for the McCann's.

If we could get any sense out of Jon Clarke of the Olive press we might just find out who alerted him to Madeleines' alleged abduction and on what date time.

He alleges that he arrived in PDL at 1.30am on May 4th. He lives over 5 hours away in Malaga.

thinking

What is the latest time that he could have left on May 3rd?

by Verdi 03.08.22 1:14

Or perhaps more to the point, the prime suspects and their group of holiday friends should be re-interviewed - if not by the Portuguese police, the British police.

In particular I cite London's Metropolitan Police who were thought to be the finest, the only force with the expertise and competence to tackle such a case - thus the formation of task force Operation Grange.

The same force under the leadership of a succession of like minded chiefs, who never took the initiative to even consider questioning Gerry McCann, Kate McCann, David Payne, Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien, Matt Oldfield, Rachel Oldfield or Dianne Webster.

That is where the mystery lies, not with any of the debris the case has collected over the years in it's various guises. Witnesses, hack journalists, former police officers in for the chance, authors with a story to tell, documentary producers blah blah blah.

That question has never been answered, at least not with any semblance of truth .... why not!?!

Any seasoned senior police officer would not choose to ignore the key players - the only people with any true knowledge of what went on during that fateful week. However it is recorded on video, thanks to the newly appointed chief of the Metropolitan Police, Mark Rowland - the McCanns had already been interviewed and cleared of suspicion by the Portuguese police.

That is a flagrant misrepresentation of fact - some might say a blatant lie!

It's a disgrace.

No question, it is essential that the parent's McCann and their group of holiday friends be re-examined. Lest they forget - the Portuguese police were not at all satisfied with the groups version of events, their version of the truth. That simple fact has never changed, the only diversion has been the crap spread far and wide in order to take the focus off the essential elements.

Give me strength - do they think we've just come in on a bateau banane?

But this is the point across the board isn't it, from terrorism to COVID-19 to war to migration to rising prices to Monkey Pox to multiculturalism (oooh another ism) - just believe what we tell you .... you know it makes sense. But it matters not whether you believe or not, we will carry on regardless for the simple reason there is naff all you can do about it.

by Verdi 03.08.22 1:33

Did David Payne turn up at the patio door of apartment 5a Ocean Club that night, like wee willie winkle in a naughty nighty, a night cap with a candle to light his way? Did Kate McCann glide out of the shower, wrap herself in a towel (usually very small and coarse in a cheap hotel) and pass the time of day with small talk?

Did he walk through an unlocked/open patio door, did he knock, did he shout, did he talk/engage with the children immediately inside the room?

Why isn't anyone in officialdom asking questions ....

Any honourable well respected seasoned detective would cross examine the key players over and over again, tie them in knots until the cracks start to appear - and then work on wards until a full picture starts to form. Something further to work on - they never give-up until a case is satisfactorily resolved and the perpetrator brought to justice.

What went wrong?

by Arnold 03.08.22 7:28

What went wrong?

Maybe an unsustainable paradoxical situation created by self deception ?

https://

www.ohio.edu/ethics/1999-conferences/the-ethics-of-police-deception/

by Verdi 03.08.22 13:02

I don't think many doubt the existence of corruption and misguided ethics in the world of policing, even those within the service will admit.

What we are trying to do here on CMOMM is to determine why this particular case has received so much support and attention by the British establishment and why the British police are so determined to see the truth buried.

In short .... why the cover-up of such a serious case as that of a missing three year old child.

Looking at every angle, as we've been doing here for many years, this isolated case appears to be a joint conspiracy to hide the truth.

Personally, I believe the British police - possibly extending outside the UK, are working under orders.

The question is, whose orders. We are still searching for that elusive butterfly ....

YES or NO? Did Dr David Payne visit Dr Kate McCann on the evening Madeleine was reported missing? - 20 CONTRADICTIONS which suggest that this visit never took place