Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

IMO Pinto de Abreu had Kate's number and didn't believe her "version of events". Hardly surprising he gets criticized in her book.

ShuBob wrote:IMO Pinto de Abreu had Kate's number and didn't believe her "version of events". Hardly surprising he gets criticized in her book.

Yep she says he had Gerry almost about to give in. "We're finished!" he said, but then, after Kate has told him to pull himself together, Gerry miraculously leaps to hit feet and shouts "You've got nothing!" at Pinto de Abreu.

I wish Mr Pinto would put pen to paper and tell us what really happened.

Châtelaine wrote:

tcat wrote:

Pershing36 wrote:I think they need to do something quick or a certain pro's server will overload. They must be in panic they have no less than 5 threads concentrated on this.

They're determined to accuse absolutely everybody they can think of as having been in cahoots with Birch aren't they.

All six (or so) of them on that forum

***
Yes, 6 or so, since they outed one of their most confidant nr. 7 or 8 a couple of months ago over a trivial thingy.
They like to keep a "compact" team. And think they're "all" clever and funny. Funny, yes, but in another way
BTW I do disinfect on the way out every time I've been there

LOL I just have to add, although off topic. I just love how the Pro's discuss the anti's / us and our posts lol instead of discussing the actual case...... - I'm sure G&K are so proud of them.

sweetex wrote:[..] I just love how the Pro's discuss the anti's / us and our posts lol instead of discussing the actual case...... - I'm sure G&K are so proud of them.

***
They remind me of "Huis Clos" ...

tcat wrote:

ShuBob wrote:IMO Pinto de Abreu had Kate's number and didn't believe her "version of events". Hardly surprising he gets criticized in her book.

Yep she says he had Gerry almost about to give in. "We're finished!" he said, but then, after Kate has told him to pull himself together, Gerry miraculously leaps to hit feet and shouts "You've got nothing!" at Pinto de Abreu.

I wish Mr Pinto would put pen to paper and tell us what really happened.

Blacksmith memorably said this remark was worthy of a Glaswegian gangster.
Apparently Gerry had an idea of getting into the car and over the border - possibly with Gibraltar in mind. This may be in the book, I have seen this mentioned.

The famous sightings in exotic locations are not working anymore, so now it's time to roll out some more Kugel and Arade Dam type ones. Remember, she was "abducted"? It must be getting very warm this summer in Rothley Manor

tigger wrote:

tcat wrote:

ShuBob wrote:IMO Pinto de Abreu had Kate's number and didn't believe her "version of events". Hardly surprising he gets criticized in her book.

Yep she says he had Gerry almost about to give in. "We're finished!" he said, but then, after Kate has told him to pull himself together, Gerry miraculously leaps to hit feet and shouts "You've got nothing!" at Pinto de Abreu.

I wish Mr Pinto would put pen to paper and tell us what really happened.

Blacksmith memorably said this remark was worthy of a Glaswegian gangster.
Apparently Gerry had an idea of getting into the car and over the border - possibly with Gibraltar in mind. This may be in the book, I have seen this mentioned.

It's in the book. But they decide it would be stupid. "The whole world would have thought we were guilty" she says.

Yes, when your child has just gone Missing it is the last thought to have on ones mind unless one has a guilty conscience.

Cheshire Cat wrote:

Me wrote:

Lady-Heather wrote:

Clouseau wrote:I believe 103% in the dogs.

A corpse was in the back of that hire car so are we expected to believe that the child was relocated there 20 odd days later with the whole worlds media looking on

i dont think so

I disagree with this based on Martin Grimes statement regarding transferral of odour: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

If Kate's clothes/cuddle cat/other items were found to have been in contact with a cadavar, which then subsequently contacted another surface (the car boot) it is plausible that the dogs were alerting to odour which had transferred from one of these items to another.

But there was genetic material found in the boot of the car, not just odour. This material gave the impression it had been frozen or placed on ice.

So it wasn't simply odour they discovered in the car.

And the odour was bad enough that the boot had to be aired for several nights. Therefore I suspect it was more than just odour that had been transferred.

Agreed to some extent. But I think that you are concluding that it was material (fluids) from Madeleine that was found in the car boot. A claim that even the FSS (prior to being shut down..) could not conclusively make:

"In his message to Det Supt Stuart Prior, head of the British side of the inquiry, Mr Lowe said a sample from the boot of the McCanns' hire car, which they rented 24 days after Madeleine went missing, contained 15 out of 19 of her DNA components. But he cautioned that this result - based on the controversial "low copy number" DNA analysis technique which uses very small samples - was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion". The expert said the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her - in fact some were present among FSS scientists, including himself. "We cannot answer the question: is the match genuine, or is it a chance match?.".

But it was from a human being. That's a very important point.

Reading about this Birch guy and his georadar equipment and how he thinks Maddie is buried in RM's garden really made me think of when KM ran to the restaurant and said "They've taken her!" I can't get it out of my head cos its exactly what a friend of mine said at the time of a close relatives death ( at home) we had arrived just after the funeral director had left....am I over thinking this? Imo if Maddie had disappeared, or been kidnapped, you'd not say "They've taken her!" strange....

Joana's site

Correio da Manhã, July 8, 2012, online edition

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/07/maddie-again.html

The Maddie soap opera continues with the greatest minds of global wisdom dictating judgements. The week started with declarations from a former homicides detective, an Englishman, who took the opportunity to show his rare professional résumé, and from there conclude that the British girl who disappeared in the Algarve was alive, though, he stressed, had not been captured by any paedophile ring.

by Francisco Moita Flores, University Professor

The news caused a stir in several countries, and the man failed to explain himself properly, or on what grounds he supported the lengthy tirade that is nothing more than a replica of other similar tirades that reach the newspapers cyclically.

The news was still hot when suddenly a South African businessman, I imagine with the help of a device of his creation, searched the terrain of the only suspect that the PJ had an eye on and assured that the girl was buried there, in that very specific spot, inasmuch as his machine is so perfectly rigorous. So much so, that it does not even warrant animal bones or another human being. It must be Maddie. The device says everything. And then it came, the version of the death, amongst the screams of indignant outrage of the suspect and the child's parents demanding for more excavations in the garden.

It is known, no one could have failed noticing as the investigations were accompanied by a massive world-wide media circus, that the garden was thoroughly scrutinized for several days by Portuguese forensic scientists, who found nothing.

In any case, so that these doubts are wiped out, I see no harm in excavating again at the location where the 'georadiologist'/businessman claims the girl was buried. Digging is good. At least, it opens the appetite.

By the way, I have received various letters, coming from the whole country, of witches, psychics, sorcerers or merely suspecting characters that have provided multiple destinations for child. If the English Spin Doctor on this case needs further publicity of the bad work of the Portuguese police, I can look them up and send them.

The Portuguese psychics would then get guaranteed global advertising, tosh or twaddle, at least it would be our 'witchcraftery' to get the laurels of the headlines.

in Correio da Manhã, July 8, 2012, online edition

From Steel Magnolia
"McCann: Stephen Birch Now Refers To Robert Murat As 'The Suspect'
This has McCann written ALL Over it !

OK I am going to risk it and speak to the office I spoke to at Scotland Yard. I will send him the article from Paulo Reis on how McCann and Co. tried to frame Murat.

http://thetapas9janetanner.blogspot.com.es/2012/02/jane-tanner-and-framing-of-robert-murat.html
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2012/07/09/maddie-hunter-might-be-charged

Maddie hunter might be charged


DENISE WILLIAMS | 09 July, 2012 00:05

A Cape Town estate developer who claims to have located the remains of British toddler Madeleine McCann might face criminal charges for trespassing.


Stephen Birch claims that through extensive research he was able to trace the three-year-old's burial site to a villa in Praia da Luz, Portugal, the town in which her parents reported her missing in May 2007.

After using an underground scanner, Birch said he believed the body lay beneath the concrete driveway of the home of one of the main suspects in the case.

To get the evidence he hoped would convince the authorities he staked out the house for days and climbed over the fence in the early hours of the morning.

"It took four days using time-lapse cameras to determine the movement of the people and secondly to determine the pattern of where the dogs went. On some evenings the big dogs were in the front and small dogs were in the house. We had to get our timing right. It was a covert operation," said Birch.

After filming the find and posting the video on internet website YouTube, Birch said he had been told that the suspect was consulting lawyers about the validity of the clip and whether he could prefer criminal charges.

"I can understand that [the suspect] is very upset. I'm hoping that he's a level-headed man and that he sees that my intentions were honourable."

He said the suspect would not allow police to enter his mother's property to excavate the driveway to prove his suspicions wrong.
Birch said an extensive 15 months of research led him to the suspect's back yard in June.

"It became a job; when I start something, whatever I do, I give it 100%."

Birch said his personal quest to investigate the McCann child's disappearance had cost him about R500000.

He admits he was not immediately interested in the case after hearing about it from a tenant of one of his buildings.

"My core business is property but I went on to Google and happened to see a video of Madeleine McCann.

"I saw the video clip of her mothering and looking after her two siblings. It was a heart-wrenching video," said Birch.

McCann went missing from a holiday flat in 2007 while on holiday with her two-year-old twin siblings and parents Kate and Gerry. The children were unsupervised while their parents went out for dinner at a nearby restaurant.

Birch said that he had never spoken to the McCanns."

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/mccann-stephen-birch-now-refers-to.html

quote from above post:
"I saw the video clip of her mothering and looking after her two siblings. It was a heart-wrenching video," said Birch.
unquote

Would that be the video where Kate is in the kitchen with the twins, 'playing' with them? Where she looks as if this is an entirely new experience for her?

It would be useful perhaps to count the number of times Kate relates or is seen anywhere interacting with any of the children. There is Sean building a sand castle in the diary, but there are many instances of complaint about their not going to sleep, having tantrums and so on.

An average mother would be writing about how and what she did with the children and about their ways of playing with things - especially when they're toddlers, a fascinating age of exploration.
I can tell you more about the thought patterns of my cat and why and how he plays with his toys than Kate tells us about either Maddie or the twins. We know nothing about these children in the way of normal information which any average mother would tell you, whether you wanted to know or not.

That line above is once again part of the hagiography of KM - it has TM stamped all over it. :bad: IMO

tigger wrote:quote from above post:
"I saw the video clip of her mothering and looking after her two siblings. It was a heart-wrenching video," said Birch.
unquote

Would that be the video where Kate is in the kitchen with the twins, 'playing' with them? Where she looks as if this is an entirely new experience for her?

[...]

That line above is once again part of the hagiography of KM - it has TM stamped all over it. :bad: IMO

***
IMO he's referring to a video of MADELEINE "mothering" Sean and Amelie.

"My core business is property but I went on to Google and happened to see a video of Madeleine McCann.

"I saw the video clip of her mothering and looking after her two siblings. It was a heart-wrenching video," said Birch.

Tigger if this piece has been posted in its entirety and the quote in the same context as the original the probability is that Birch refs to Maddie here, not her mother, who has not been mentioned by name prior to the quote above. the quote is bookended by ref to Maddie, so I honestly think he is ref to a video clip of the child mothering and looking after her two siblings. If the ref was to Kate I am sure Birch who is articualte judging by the 2 interviews I have heard, would have said
" I saw the video clip of Kate mothering and looking after Maddie's two siblings"
or " I saw the video clip of Kate mothering and looking after the twins"
also , I would not expect Birch to use the verb mothering about a mother, but about someone playing that role.

Is there a video clip where Maddie is fussing and directing the twins or acting in a motherly fashion towards them....was it not said at one time that Maddie was like a little mother to the twins,by one of the family?
Look at those first lines, the name and the pronoun.he is without doubt imo ref to Madeleine

Yes that is the impression that I get too in view of the sentence immediately before referring to Madeleine.

russiandoll wrote: ... and looking after her two siblings

That part tells he is talking about Maddie

courtsey of McCann files

"She would never have got up and gone off on her own, it just wasn't in her nature.

"She wouldn't have left the twins, she was like a wee mother figure to them."

"If someone lifted her out of bed Madeleine would have screamed the place down. That girl could throw a tantrum if she wanted to and she and the twins were quite shy about meeting new people."
- Eileen McCann (Gerry McCann's mother, Sunday Mail, 27/4/08

and re the bold....I am confident that if we look, we will find video evidence of this.

I don't think Birch is a McCann supporter but he def has an agenda and he is stirring the pot, maybe testing for a reaction from the parents to his findings? How will they react and what does he want the public and police to conclude from their reaction ?

russiandoll wrote: courtsey of McCann files

"She would never have got up and gone off on her own, it just wasn't in her nature.

"She wouldn't have left the twins, she was like a wee mother figure to them."

"If someone lifted her out of bed Madeleine would have screamed the place down. That girl could throw a tantrum if she wanted to and she and the twins were quite shy about meeting new people."
- Eileen McCann (Gerry McCann's mother, Sunday Mail, 27/4/08

and re the bold....I am confident that if we look, we will find video evidence of this.
I don't think Birch is a McCann supporter but he def has an agenda and he is stirring the pot, maybe testing for a reaction from the parents to his findings? How will they react and what does he want the public and police to conclude from their reaction ?

Apologies, I did notice the 'siblings' but assumed it was the usual wrong use of language.

In addition to that, I have never seen a video where Maddie seems to take much notice of the twins or vice versa. The staircase one, the Christmas one, the one on the sofa, the fairy one. Nope, no mothering going on at all. In fact she seems barely aware of them.
That fits well with Kate's remark that the twins didn't have much to do with her.

So, it would be great if Birch could give us a link to this video. SA seems to have more information on Maddie than is available elsewhere, this video, a hair brush belonging to Maddie with lots of her hair in it, detailed information on her date, time and place of burial.....

Forgive me for ranting, but how long ago was this travel agency rumpus? Getting Maddie back on the front page because her photograph had been used to advertise child friendly holidays? That was allegedly Hong Kong based.
Can we expect some vital news from Ulan Bator at some time in the future when all else has been exhausted?

No apologies needed Tigger, the statement looked ambiguous on a first reading...anyway, you are entitled to your opinion so don't say sorry !

Lord alone knows what is going on, but it is a fact that after weeks of silence on certain blogs, the Horrocks piece was republished prior to this explosive news story re Birch. I hope this has now not descended into a disgusting case of game playing by rival factions with people being paid to feed stories to the press. I do not understand the deafening silence from a couple who have had no credible leads re their missing daughter for 5 years, nor from the UK media who love a sensational story, nor from the police, although it is possible maybe even probable, that the 2 forces are working together on this issue without making a statement.
The implications of Birch's words are shocking. The problem is the reports, with words attributed to him for which there aren't direct quotes. He does not believe Murat is involved for one, he wants to bring closure to the family another, a suspicious individual helping Gerry yet another. All stated by the media but not by him in the interviews I heard.
He has now explained how he had access without the threat of those dogs in one news report today.

from Steel Magnolia

McCann: Stephen Birch Now Refers To Robert Murat As 'The Suspect'
This has McCann written ALL Over it !

"OK I am going to risk it and speak to the officer I spoke with at Scotland Yard ( nothing to do with Op.Grange). I will send him the article from Paulo Reis on how McCann and Co. tried to frame Murat. It is time someone understand the evil at play here."

I have to comment again that there is no direct quote and it appears that the writer of this piece has, as did writers of the early Birch stories, referred to Mr Murat as " the suspect".

I thought SM was shocked into silence last week? Where has the voice come from all of a sudden, Joana Morais another one......very strange.

Stephen Birch's intervention is symptomatic of a new level of interest in the case and a widespread international perception that something is seriously strange about it. Even if there is nothing under Murat's drive this is going to be an interesting year IMO. SB appears prepared to end up in court and he has a heavyweight legal team. So has Pat Brown for her trial and Tony Bennett may have a barrister (let's hope so!) for his trial. Amaral's trial is also coming up in Portugal. Then there are the SY and PJ reviews. I have been involved in commercial civil litigation in the past (fascinating) and the pattern is heavyweight posturing followed by carnage in court. As I've posted previously this is going to end suddenly (though when is anyone's guess) and its not going to be pretty. The gloves are coming off.

I see we have a Stephen Birch who has joined the forum today.

Lady-Heather wrote:
Agreed to some extent. But I think that you are concluding that it was material (fluids) from Madeleine that was found in the car boot. A claim that even the FSS (prior to being shut down..) could not conclusively make:

"In his message to Det Supt Stuart Prior, head of the British side of the inquiry, Mr Lowe said a sample from the boot of the McCanns' hire car, which they rented 24 days after Madeleine went missing, contained 15 out of 19 of her DNA components. But he cautioned that this result - based on the controversial "low copy number" DNA analysis technique which uses very small samples - was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion". The expert said the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her - in fact some were present among FSS scientists, including himself. "We cannot answer the question: is the match genuine, or is it a chance match?.".

This is really very ambiguous is it not?

So the "low copy number" technique uses very small samples of DNA. Logically speaking, if one has 15 out of 19 markers, then one would expect that the smaller the sample of DNA then the smaller the chances of this extremely high percentage occurring.

"The expert said the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her.." Does anyone have unique DNA? I should imagine every last drop of my 'personal DNA' is shared with someone or other on the planet. It is it's configuration which makes it unique to me.

The fact that some of the FSS staff and Mr Lowe himself share *some* of these markers by itself is largely irrelvant. As I say, Mr Lowe is ambiguous after the Brown visit. It is statistics which make DNA evidence both significant and unique, it is a way of gauging their uniqueness. Did Mr Lowe or any of his FSS staff carry all 15of those markers. I'll hazard a very healthy guess that the answer to that question is a big fat "No". And the question naturally follows, then what are the odss statistically speaking of one of your staff carrying all 15 of those markers? Then we would have an idea as to the true value and significance of those markers. If we wanted to be deadly accurate and nail Mr Lowe to the wall we should ask what are the chances of someone having all 15 of those markers if we took from that person an equally small sample of DNA from them as found in the boot of that car? Now that really would tell us how unique that DNA is. What's more, Mr Lowe knows it yet fails to mention it......