The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

by **sharonl** 30.07.17 18:01

Thank you Elainebines for alerting us to this channel

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by Guest 31.07.17 7:51

sharonl wrote:Thank you Elainebines for alerting us to this channel

Interesting but I don't think it was Kate.

It seems to me that the CCTV images in the files were not all the CCTV images available because of the irregular timings.

If Kate was there she would be on the CCTV coming in and going out.

by **sharonl** 31.07.17 8:00

BlueBag wrote:
sharonl wrote:Thank you Elainebines for alerting us to this channel

Interesting but I don't think it was Kate.

It seems to me that the CCTV images in the files were not all the CCTV images available because of the irregular timings.

If Kate was there she would be on the CCTV coming in and going out.

Good point, but whoever it was would be on the CCTV coming in and going out. Is there any footage of this woman entering or leaving?

by Guest 31.07.17 8:34

If there was then Amaral would have seen it.

The second video about David Payne and Fiona is much more interesting and is covered on another thread here.

Why didn't the PJ get access to David Paynes statement about being there at 1700H?

by Verdi 31.07.17 12:29

The second video about David Payne and Fiona is much more interesting and is covered on another thread here.

Exactly and hopefully more coherently.

Remember folks - you saw it here first.

by Verdi 31.07.17 12:52

Even if the original document was witheld from the PJ by Leicestershire Police, who incidently I consider to be very questionable as regards the case of Madeleine McCann, the document penned by David Payne was brought to their attention in October 2007 by way of the memorandum between DC Marshall and Ricard Paiva - still time enough for the PJ to further investigate if the need be.

As the Payne document appears to be connected with the Gaspar statements, it stands to reason any police detail will be witheld as it directly indicates child sex abuse. Also, if the information contained in the Payne document wasn't thought to be of any relevance to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, then it would be discarded. I however opt for the former suggestion being, I think, the most likely.

by roz 31.07.17 13:01

Interesting points raised, but regarding the passports video:

Silvia Maria Correia Ramos Batista 2007/05/07 Maintenance Services Director
(Snipped)
As she said earlier she was alerted about the disappearance of Madeleine between 22.30 and 23:00. She was at home and was informed of the event via a telephone call.
She drove immediately to the Ocean Club where she arrived a few minutes before elements of the GNR popped in.
After she arrived she went immediately to the apartment A5 where she found several people inside the apartment and outside of it. She entered in the flat but soon left without having spoken with anyone, because she was informed that elements of the GNR were in the principal reception. She went there to meet them.
She entered the apartment and asked for the passports of all elements of the family, and also photographs of the missing girl. She went with Gerry to the GNR car to hand over the requested documents.

From PJ files 5A photo:
Those are the photos taken by the PJ technician Joao Barreiras in the early hours of 4 May. There is a Statement referencing the activity and, from memory, he was/they were active between 01:00 and 03:30/04:00 taking pictures and doing the first fingerprint checks.

In my opinion the GNR must have retained Madeleine’s passport, giving the other 4 back.
There is a copy of Madeleine’s passport on file.

There were only 4 passports on the chest of drawers in the apartment at the time the photographs were taken.

by paulhelstessbust 31.07.17 21:04

examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to. So Fiona is seen on cctv here she states after leaving the parisio restaurant she walks back to kates apartment with Kate. How is that possible if Kate carried a tired Madeleine back from high tea to there apartment and Kate remained there till she went for dinner at the tapas at 8.30.It is possible this person could be kate she had high tea with the twins and Madeline and Gerry. Gerry took Madeleine back to the apartment Kate took the twins to parisio .There are two entrances to pariso one we can see the other we cannot see .After leaving the parisio Fiona walks back with Kate as she says .The cctv is missing minutes Fiona Diane Webster this lady appear already there on cctv

by paulhelstessbust 31.07.17 21:14

i forgot to mention look at the times it goes lady who could be Kate 5.31 pic 2 5.31 pic3 5.31.picr 5.34 3mins gone and the lady has gone also then goes to 5.38 5mins gone then to 5.46 8mins gone

by JRP 31.07.17 22:39

I know the McCann's version of Thursday isn't without it's doubts, but if this was what happened on Thursday then why doesn't anything tally.
The McCann's version of events differ from those of David and Fiona Paynes. In fact, the Paynes version of events differ from each other. To be fair, David Paynes version of events, also differs from David Paynes version of events.
Kate says she was in the shower when David Payne turned up.

OK, so I don't believe David Payne was at the McCann's on Thursday evening, but if Madeleine was alive and well on Thursday, then surely everyone's statement would fit closely together. Why the need for all the different stories if everything at this point in time was normal?

I know nobody can answer this, but I'm simply making a point. If everything was hunky dory, then the truth would be clear, would it not?

by Phoebe 01.08.17 1:03

It may sound cynical but what a coincidence that the Tapas 7 just happened to plonk themselves down at the table which was directly in front of the cctv camera. I don't believe it was sheer chance. Kate and Gerry were, I imagine, rather preoccupied with other matters that afternoon, and their friends deliberately put themselves at a distance from them, with timed, photographic proof. Only much later when the P.J. began to examine the long gap from when Madeleine was "last seen" until the 10 p.m. alert did helpful Payne dream up his visit to Kate and the 3 children. "Er they wouldn't have had time to do anything. I saw her alive at 5 p.m. er 6.30 p.m. er around 7 p.m. - whatever! I saw her alive, so there Mr. smartypants policeman!"

by Verdi 01.08.17 1:09

Communication from Mike Marshall to Ricardo Paiva - dated 24th October 2007

Re: David Payne [snipped]

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.
--------

Fiona Payne's formal witness statement contained within the PJ files

Fiona Payne witness statement - 4th May 2007

Yesterday [Thursday 3rd May] they slightly altered their routine, they went to the beach with the children and her mother Dianne. They arrived there around 15H45 and left at 18H15, and

....headed towards the tennis court until about 19H00. Immediately afterwards, the witness headed towards the apartment with her children, and her mother. Ten minutes later her husband David appeared.

In the apartment her mother, helped by her husband David, bathed the children whilst the witness went jogging on the beach until around 20H00. Afterwards, she returned to the apartment and got ready. She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.
------

Fiona Payne's rogatory interview - April 2008

[Thursday 3rd May] 'Erm, and then I remember it getting to tennis time, because it was men's tennis that night and the men had all rearranged the time to suit us and it was getting towards six o'clock and, you know, they were going to be late, so I remember saying 'Look, you better go because it's not fair, you've moved the time then you'll be late'. Erm, so I think that, that was sort of approaching five to six. And we were toying with the idea of getting the kids ice creams for pudding and then thought oh we probably don't have time, but then we decided well, you know, why don't you go off and go to your tennis and we'll just give them their ice cream and follow on. And so I think they left probably about, you know, that being Matt and Dave and Russell, around five to six, six o'clock time. And the, you know, the wives stayed behind with the kids, they had ice cream and then we followed on about ten past six and we just walked back up to, to watch them play a bit of tennis and give the kids, you know, a little playtime. Erm, and I don't think we stayed there that long that night because the kids were pretty, pretty tired. Erm, I'm trying to think, I'd say probably by seven o'clock we were, me and my mum headed back with the kids to start bath time. Erm, and Dave, we left him playing tennis for a bit longer. Erm, I think we'd bathed the kids by the time he got back, probably ten minutes later. Erm, and then I went for a run that night, after the kids were bathed'.
----------

'I don't think specifically. I can't say I ever paid any attention, I knew all the apartments had the same shutters, you know, but, to be honest I never went into Kate and Gerry's apartment before the night, erm, on Thursday ' [here Fiona Payne refers to a visit to apartment 5a after the 10 pm alert by Kate McCann].
-----

These are the only two formal interviews with Fiona Payne on public record, apart from one other which related solely to Robert Murat.

It would appear that DC Mike Marshall either knows something no one else seems to know or his memorandum to Ricardo Paiva is questionable as regards accuracy. I think the latter - note text highlighted in red. From where I'm standing, this throws the whole of DC Mike Marshall's communication into doubt - or better still into the trash can.

by Guest 01.08.17 8:30

I agree Verdi, he has mixed up Kate with Diane Webster.

Which means his David Payne 1700H is also probably crap.

by JRP 01.08.17 10:23

Yes, I'd go with that explanation too, I think Mike Marshall doesn't know 7 o'clock from 17 o'clock or his a*se from his e*bow.

by Liz Eagles 01.08.17 11:12

Wasn't it Jim Gamble who confirmed things as a bit of a cock-up Blighty side with not a single uber agency in command and everyone wanted to help.

Who they wanted to help is the pertinent and enduring question.

When I first read the rogatory interviews some six years ago I was foolishly heartened that UK Police was assisting the PJ. Then I read them again and completely changed my mind.

Even allowing for interview technique, the rogatory interviews were nothing but shameful and at best bordered on a fireside chat with tea and biccies (Dianne Webster who likes biscuits and forgot her mobile phone!) to the more sinister purpose of gathering pre-prompted information from what seem to be incoherent witnesses and not probing for specific answers to the specific questions posed by the PJ.

It doesn't surprise me that equally incoherent/confusing information/misinformation would emanate from the lousy support given by UK police to the PJ in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

All the witnesses in the rogatory interviews were allowed to see each others' statements. Is this normal?

It was very easy for the establishment (Jim Gamble) to beat up Leicestershire Police as lead co-ordinators but Leics Constab was chosen and that's another million dollar question.

If anyone still thinks OG is a true and honest investigation then I'll go to the foot of my stairs.

by Verdi 01.08.17 12:42

Reverting to DC Mike Marshall's October 2007 memorandum to Ricardo Paiva, reference to David Payne he said..

"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.

When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there.
-----

As far as I'm aware, this is the only documented reference to a document/questionnaire provided by David Payne, so what exactly is DC Marshall referring to here - possibly David Payne's witness statement taken on 4th May 2007? Otherwise this one-off occurrence appears to be very unorthodox in terms of standard policing. DC Marshall's memorandum implies that he again interviewed David Payne around this time but is that really likely? Is DC Marshall's record of events a true depiction of further questioning of David Payne as regards the Gaspar Statements or just downright shoddy policing? I'll go with the latter.

My reason being that DC Marshall said....

"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known."

The detail he provides about David Payne's alleged visit to apartment 5a is not already known. It's not feasible to believe David Payne gave such a conflicting account of his visit to apartment 5a on the evening of 3rd May in October 2007, between his witness statement of 4th May 2007 and his back-up rogatory interview in April 2008.

Without further information about the Payne document/questionnaire (which was it exactly?) and DC Marshall's direct involvement, I think this memorandum can be safely disregarded pending new evidence.

Now I've wasted enough time on the videos of Paul - Statement man!

by Verdi 01.08.17 15:57

aquila wrote:
It was very easy for the establishment (Jim Gamble) to beat up Leicestershire Police as lead co-ordinators but Leics Constab was chosen and that's another million dollar question.

A question I've been asking for many a day and to date has never been satisfactorily answered - why Leicester Constabulary?

Logical of course if they were appointed only to act as a UK contact point and coordinating force between the UK and Portugal but that was never the case was it. No sooner had Madeleine 'disappeared' and their they were, tramping over Portuguese terrain in their size twelve government issue hob-nails, proactively (to pinch Gerry McCann's favourite) interfering with an active Portuguese police investigation - more of a poke yer nosey in exercise.

Only a matter of time before they were deviously, fraudulently and effectively steering the investigation. Then came Operation Grange - an extension of the agenda initiated by Leicester Constabulary and associated contacts..

I think Paul statement man needs to do some homework before presenting videos on YouTube. It's very misleading if seen by people with little knowledge of this case, it does more harm than good.

by Guest 01.08.17 21:18

Leicester Police.

Why did Gordon Brown visit the nearest Police station to where the McCanns live only days after they fled Portugal.

by polyenne 01.08.17 22:28

Because, IMO, he has an involvement in the Big Issue that is really behind the real reason for the Madeleine cover-up.

Him and many other high profile people.

by Keitei 01.08.17 22:58

An old article but he did promise........

Hunt for Madeleine: Brown pledges to 'do everything in our power' to find her
Last updated at 11:59 09 July 2007

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by polyenne 02.08.17 7:48

Did he promise not to sell half the UKs gold reserves off too ?

by sar 02.08.17 10:41

polyenne wrote:Did he promise not to sell half the UKs gold reserves off too ?

or rubber stamp the Halifax / Bank Of Scotland merger, allegedly over a champagne lunch?

by Verdi 02.08.17 11:51

BlueBag wrote:Leicester Police.

Why did Gordon Brown visit the nearest Police station to where the McCanns live only days after they fled Portugal.

To be sure their every need was being catered for. Their comfort, their security, their safety, their guaranteed freedom and protection from the beady eye of the law?

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ETA: Wasn't the former Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, with him on that occasion?

by Keitei 02.08.17 12:16

Not forgetting these factors, as discussed here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Could we also be losing sight of:

* Gordon Brown's 'phone calls with Dr Gerald McCann on his mobile 'phone in May 2007?

* Gordon Brown's 'phone calls in May 2007 begging the Portuguese authorities to release the description of 'Tannerman'?

* Gordon Brown's visits to the FSS in Birmingham Leicestershire Constabulary (September 2007)?

* Gordon Brown being 'phoned about Dr Goncalo Amaral's removal from his post even before Amaral himself was informed?

* Gordon Brown's conversations with Jose Socrates, Portuguese Prime Minister, in October 2007 about Madeleine McCann?

* The Home Office's obstruction of the Rogatory Letters?

by paulhelstessbust 02.08.17 13:28

Mike marshall to Richard pavia with regards to mixing up Diane with Kate I don't think the most incompetent detective could let that go .Especially having read the statements as he said he did there's a clear contradiction between her statement and the one Mike Marshall sent to Richard pavia . This document was missing off the DVD files .Ask yourself why would Fiona describe the husband arriving 10 mins after walking back with Kate. Look at the statement at 19.00 hrs she walks back with Kate 10 mins later the husband arrived so that's 19.10.Gerry mcanns statement I left the tennis returned to his apartment at guess what 19.10 exactly the same time as Fiona described .So how would fiona know Gerry arrived at 19.10 if she went back to her own apartment .